What is money, anyway?

2022-03-280:09480389www.lynalden.com

Published: March 2022 Money is a surprisingly complex subject. People spend their lives seeking money, and in some ways it seems so straightforward, and yet what humanity has defined as money has…

Published: March 2022

Money is a surprisingly complex subject.

People spend their lives seeking money, and in some ways it seems so straightforward, and yet what humanity has defined as money has changed significantly over the centuries.

How could something so simple and so universal, take so many different forms?

Source of Icons: Flaticon

It’s an important question to ponder because we basically have four things we can do with our resources: consume, save, invest, or share.

Consume: When we consume, we meet our immediate needs and desires, including shelter, food, and entertainment.

Save: When we save, we store our resources in something that is safe, liquid, and portable, a.k.a. money. This serves as a low-risk battery of future resource consumption across time and space.

Invest: When we invest, we commit resources to a project that has a decent likelihood of multiplying our resources but also comes with a risk of losing them, by trying to provide some new value to ourselves or others. This serves as a higher-risk, less-liquid, and less-portable amplifier of future resource consumption potential compared to money. There are personal investments, like our own business or education, and there are external financial investments in companies or projects led by other people.

Share: When we share, or in other words give to charity and those in our community, we give some portion of our excess resources to those that we deem to be needing and deserving. In many ways, this can be considered a form of investment in the ongoing success and stability of our larger community, which is probably why we are wired to want to do it.

The majority of people in the world don’t invest in financial assets; they are still on the consumption stage (basic necessities and daily entertainment) or the saving stage (money and home equity), either due to income constraints, consumption excesses, or because they live in part of the world that doesn’t have well-developed capital markets. Many of them do, however, invest in expanding a self-owned business or in educating themselves and their children, meaning they invest in their personal lives, and they might share in their community as well, through religious institutions or secular initiatives.

Among the minority that do invest in financial assets, they are generally accustomed to the idea that investments change rapidly over time, and so they have to put a lot of thought into how they invest. They either figure out a strategy themselves and manage that, or they outsource that task to a specialist to do it for them to focus more on the skills that they earn the resources with in the first place.

However, depending on where they live in the world, people are not very accustomed to keeping track of the quality of money itself, or deciding which type of money to hold.

In developed countries in particular, people often just hold the currency of that country. In developing countries that tend to have a more recent and extreme history of currency devaluation, people often put more thought into what type of money they hold. They might try to minimize how much cash they hold and keep it in hard assets, or they might hold foreign currency, for example.

This article looks at the history of money, and examines this rather unusual period in time where we seem to be going through a gradual global transformation of what we define as money, comparable to the turning points of 1971-present (Petrodollar System), 1944-1971 (Bretton Woods System), the 1700s-1944 (Gold Standard System), and various commodity-money transition periods (pre-1700s). This type of occasion happens relatively rarely in history for any given society but has massive implications when it happens, so it’s worth being aware of.

If we condense those stages to the basics, the world has gone through three phases: commodity money, gold standard (the final form of commodity money), and fiat currency.

A fourth phase, digital money, is on the horizon. This includes private digital assets (e.g. bitcoin and stablecoins) and public digital currencies (e.g. central bank digital currencies) that can change how we do banking, and what economic tools policymakers have in terms of fiscal and monetary policy. These assets can be thought of as digital versions of gold, commodities, or fiat currency, but they also have their own unique aspects.

This article walks through the history of monetary transitions from the lenses of a few different schools of thought (often at odds with each other), and then examines the current and near-term situation as it pertains to money and how we might go about investing in it. Start from the beginning or jump to the chapter you want:

Some people whose work I’ve drawn from for this article, from the past and present, include Carl Menger, Warren Mosler, Friedrich Hayek, Satoshi Nakamoto, Adam Back, Saifdean Ammous, Vijay Boyapati, Stephanie Kelton, Ibn Battuta, Emil Sandstedt, Robert Breedlove, Ray Dalio, Alex Gladstein, Elizabeth Stark, Barry Eichengreen, Ross Stevens, Luke Gromen, Anita Posch, Jeff Booth, and Thomas Gresham.

Commodity Money

Money is not an invention of the state. It is not the product of a legislative act. Even the sanction of political authority is not necessary for its existence. Certain commodities came to be money quite naturally, as the result of economic relationships that were independent of the power of the state.

-Carl Menger, 1840-1921

Barter occurred throughout the world in various contexts going back tens of thousands of years or more.

Eventually, humans began to develop concepts and technologies that allowed them to abstract that process. The more complex an economy becomes, the greater the number of possible combinations of barter you can have between different types of goods and services providers, so the economy starts requiring some standard unit of account, or money.

Specifically, the society begins requiring something divisible and universally acceptable. An apple farmer, for example, that needs some tools (a blacksmith), meat (a cattle rancher), repair work (a carpenter), and medicine for her children (a doctor), can’t spend the time going around finding individuals that have what she needs, that also happen to want a ton of apples. Instead, she simply needs to be able to sell her highly seasonal apples for some unit, that she can use to save and buy all of those things with over time as she needs them.

Money, especially types of money that take work to produce, often seems arbitrary to outsiders of that culture. But that work ends up paying for itself many times over, because a standardized and credible medium of exchange and store of value makes all other economic transactions more efficient. The apple farmer doesn’t need to find a specific doctor who wants to buy a ton of apples for his expensive services right now.

A number of economists from multiple economic schools have pondered and formulated this concept, but commodity money as a topic tends to come up the most often by those in the school of Austrian Economics, founded by Carl Menger in the 1800s.

In this way of thinking, money should be divisible, portable, durable, fungible, verifiable, and scarce. It also usually (but not always) has some utility in its own right. Different types of money have different “scores” along those metrics.

  • Divisible means the money can be sub-divided into various sizes to take into account different sizes of purchases.
  • Portable means the money is easy to move across distances, which means it has to pack a lot of value into a small weight.
  • Durable means the money is easy to save across time; it does not rot or rust or break easily.
  • Fungible means that individual units of the money don’t differ significantly from each other, which allows for fast transactions.
  • Verifiable means that the seller of the goods or services for the money can check that the money is what it really appears to be.
  • Scarce means that the money supply does not change quickly, since a rapid change in supply would devalue existing units.
  • Utility means that the money is intrinsically desirable in some way; it can be consumed or has aesthetic value, for example.

Summing those attributes together, money is the “most salable good” available in a society, meaning it’s the good that is the most capable of being sold. Money is the good that is most universal, in the sense that people want it, or realize they can trade for it and then easily and reliably trade it for something else they do want.

Other definitions consider money to be “that which extinguishes debt”, but debt is generally denominated in units of whatever money is defined to be at the time the debt was issued. In other words, debt is typically denominated in units of the most salable good, rather than the most salable good being defined as what debt is denominated in. Indeed, however, part of the ongoing network effect of what sustains a fiat currency system is the large amount of debt in the economy that creates sustained ongoing demand for those currency units to service those debts.

Back in 1912, Mr. J.P. Morgan testified before Congress and is quoted as having said the famous line:

Gold is money. Everything else is credit.

In other words, although their terms often overlap, currency and money can be thought of as two different things for the purpose of discussion.

We can define currency as a liability of an institution, typically either a commercial bank or a central bank, that is used as a medium of exchange and unit of account. Physical paper dollars are a formal liability of the US Federal Reserve, for example, while consumer bank deposits are a formal liability of that particular commercial bank (which in turn hold their reserves at the Federal Reserve, and those are liabilities of the Federal Reserve as well).

In contrast to currency, we can define money as a liquid and fungible asset that is not also a liability. It’s something intrinsic, like gold. It’s recognized as a highly salable good in and of itself. In some eras, money was held by banks as a reserve asset in order to support the currency that they issue as liabilities. Unlike a dollar, which is an asset to you but a liability of some other entity, you can hold gold which is an asset to you and a liability to nobody else.

Under gold standard systems, currency represented a claim for money. The bank would pay the bearer on demand if they came to redeem their banknote paper currency for its pegged amount of gold.

Scarcity is often what determines the winner between two competing commodity monies. However, it’s not just about how rare the asset is. A good concept to be familiar with here is the stock-to-flow ratio, which measures how much supply there currently exists in the region or world (the stock) divided by how much new supply can be produced in a year (the flow).

For example, gold miners historically add about 1.5% new gold to the estimated existing above-ground gold supply each year, and the vast majority of gold does not get consumed; it gets re-melted and stored in various shapes and places.

Gold Supply Growth

Chart Source: NYDIG

This gives gold a stock to flow ratio of 100/1.5 = 67 on average, which is the highest stock-to-flow ratio of any commodity. The world collectively owns 67 years worth of average annual production, based on World Gold Council estimates. Let’s call it about 60 or 70 since this isn’t exact.

If a money (the most salable good) is easy to create more of, then any rational economic actor would just go out and create more money for herself, diluting the whole supply of it. If an asset has a monetary premium on top of its pure utility value, then it’s strongly incentivizing market participants to try to make more of it, and so only the forms of money that are the most resistant to debasement can withstand this challenge.

On the other hand, if a commodity is so rare that barely anyone has it, then it may be extremely valuable if it has utility, but it has little useful role as money. It’s not liquid and widely-held, and so the frictional costs of buying and selling it are higher. Certain atomic elements like rhodium for example are rarer than gold, but have low stock-to-flow ratios because they are consumed by industry as quickly as they are mined. A rhodium coin or bar can be purchased as a niche collectible or store of value, but it’s not useful as societal money.

So, a long-lasting high stock-to-flow ratio tends to be the best way to measure scarcity for something to be considered money, along with the other attributes on the list above, rather than absolute rarity. A commodity with a high stock-to-flow ratio is hard to produce, and yet a lot of it has already been produced and is widely distributed and held, because it either isn’t rapidly consumed or isn’t consumed at all. That’s a relatively uncommon set of attributes.

Throughout history various stones, beads, feathers, shells, salt, furs, fabrics, sugar, coconuts, livestock, copper, silver, gold, and other things have served as money. They each have different scores for the various attributes of money, and tend to have certain strengths and weaknesses.

Salt for example is divisible, durable, verifiable, fungible, and has important utility, but is not very valuable per unit of weight and not very rare, so doesn’t score very well for portability and scarcity.

Gold is the best among just about every attribute, and is the commodity with by far the highest stock-to-flow ratio. The one weakness it has compared to other commodities is that it’s not very divisible. Even a small gold coin is more valuable than most purchases, and is worth as much as most people make in a week of labor. It’s the king of commodities.

For a large portion of human history, silver has actually been the winner in terms of usage. It has the second-best score after gold across the board for most attributes, and the second highest stock-to-flow ratio, but beats gold in terms of divisibility, since small silver coins can be used for daily transactions. It’s the queen of commodities. And in chess, the king may be the most important piece, but the queen is the most useful piece.

In other words, gold was often held by the wealthy as a long-term store (and display) of value, and as a medium of exchange for very large purchases, while silver was the more tactical money, used as a medium of exchange and store of value by far more people. A bimetallic money system was common in many regions of the world for that reason until relatively recently, despite the challenges that come with that.

The scarcity of some of the other commodities have more specific weaknesses as it relates to technology. Here are two examples:

Rai Stones

Inhabitants of a south-Pacific island called Yap used enormous stones as money. These “rai stones” or “fei stones” as they were called were circular discs of stone with a hole in the center, and came in various sizes, ranging from a few inches in diameter to over ten feet in diameter. Many of them were at least a couple feet across, and thus weighed hundreds of pounds. The biggest were over ten feet across and weighed several thousands of pounds.

Interestingly, I’ve seen this example used by both an Austrian economist (Saifedean Ammous) and an MMT economist (Warren Mosler). The reason that’s interesting is because those two schools of thought have very different conceptions of what money is.

Anyway, what made these stones unique was that they were made from a special type of limestone that was not found in abundance on the island. Yap islanders would travel 250 miles to a neighboring island called Palau to quarry the limestone and bring it back to Yap.

They would send a team of many people to that far island, quarry the rock in giant slabs, and bring it back on wooden boats. Imagine bringing a multi-thousand pound stone across 250 miles of open ocean on a wooden boat. People died in this process over the years.

Once made into rai stones on Yap, the big ones wouldn’t move. This is a small island, and all of the stones were catalogued by oral tradition. An owner could trade one for some other important goods and services, and rather than moving the stone, this would take the form of announcing to the community that this other person owned the stone now.

In that sense, rai stones were a ledger system, not that different than our current monetary system. The ledger keeps track of who owns what, and this particular ledger happened to be orally distributed, which of course can only work in a small geography.

By the time this was documented by Europeans, there were thousands of rai stones on Yap, representing centuries of quarrying, transporting, and making them. Rai stones thus had a high stock-to-flow ratio, which is a main reason for why they could be used as money.

In the late 1800s, an Irishman named David O’Keefe came across the island and figured this out. And, with his better technology, he could easily quarry stone from Palau and bring it to Yap to make rai stones, and thus could become the richest man on the island, able to get locals to work for him and trade him various goods.

As the Irishman got to know Yap better, he realized that there was one commodity, and only one, that the local people coveted—the “stone money” for which the island was renowned and that was used in almost all high-value transactions on Yap. These coins were quarried from aragonite, a special sort of limestone that glistens in the light and was valuable because it was not found on the island. O’Keefe’s genius was to recognize that, by importing the stones for his new friends, he could exchange them for labor on Yap’s coconut plantations. The Yapese were not much interested in sweating for the trader’s trinkets that were common currency elsewhere in the Pacific (nor should they have been, a visitor conceded, when “all food, drink and clothing is readily available, so there is no barter and no debt” ), but they would work like demons for stone money.

-Smithsonian Magazine, “David O’Keefe: the King of Hard Currency”

In essence, better technology eventually broke the stock-to-flow ratio of rai stones by dramatically increasing the flow. Foreigners with more advanced technology could bring any number of them to the island, become the wealthiest people on the island, and therefore increase the supply and reduce the value of the stones over time.

However, locals were smart too, and they eventually mitigated that process. They began to assign more value to older stones (ones that were verifiably quarried by hand decades or centuries ago), because they exclude the new abundant stones by definition and thus maintain their scarcity. Nonetheless, the writing was on the wall; this wasn’t a great system anymore.

Things then took a darker turn. As described in that Smithsonian piece:

With O’Keefe dead and the Germans thoroughly entrenched, things began to go badly for the Yapese after 1901. The new rulers conscripted the islanders to dig a canal across the archipelago, and, when the Yapese proved unwilling, began commandeering their stone money, defacing the coins with black painted crosses and telling their subjects that they could only be redeemed through labor. Worst of all, the Germans introduced a law forbidding the Yapese from traveling more than 200 miles from their island. This put an immediate halt to the quarrying of fei , though the currency continued to be used even after the islands were seized by the Japanese, and then occupied by the United States in 1945.

Many of the stones were taken and used as makeshift anchors or building materials during World War II by the Japanese, reducing the number of stones on the island.

Rai stones were a notable form of money while they lasted because they had no utility. They were a way to display and record wealth, and little else. In essence, it was one of the earliest versions of a public ledger, since the stones didn’t move and only oral records (or later, physical marks by Germans) dictated who owned them.

African Beads

As another example, trade beads were used in parts of west Africa as money for many centuries, stretching back at least to the 1300s and prior as documented by ancient travelers at the time, as recorded by Emil Sandstedt. Various rare materials could be used, such as coral, amber, and glass. Venetian glass beads gradually made their way across the Sahara over time as well.

To quote Ibn Battatu, from his travels in the 14th century (from Sandstedt’s article):

A traveler in this country carries no provisions, whether plain food or seasonings, and neither gold nor silver. He takes nothing but pieces of salt and glass ornaments, which the people call beads, and some aromatic goods.

These were pastoral societies, often on the move, and the ability to wear your money in the form of strands of beautiful beads was useful. These beads maintained a high stock-to-flow ratio because they were kept and traded as money, while being hard to produce with their level of technology.

Eventually, Europeans began traveling and accessing west Africa more frequently, noticed this usage of trade beads, and exploited them. Europeans had glass-making technology, and could produce beautiful beads with modest effort. So, they could trade tons of these beads for commodities and other goods (and unfortunately for human slaves as well).

Due to this technological asymmetry, they devalued these glass beads by increasing their supply throughout west Africa, and extracted a lot of value from those societies in the process. Locals kept trading scarce local “goods”, ranging from important commodities to invaluable human lives, for glass beads that had far more abundance than they realized. As a result, they traded away their real valuables for fake valuables. Picking the wrong type of money can have dire consequences.

It wasn’t as easy as one might suspect for the Europeans to accomplish, however, because the Africans’ preferences for certain types of beads would change over time, and different tribes had different preferences. This seemed to be similar to the rai stones, where once new supplies of rai stones started coming in faster due to European technology, the people of Yap began wisely valuing old ones more than new ones. Essentially, the west African tastes seemed to change base on aesthetics/fashion and on scarcity. This, however, also gave that form of money a low score for fungibility, which reduced its reliability as money even for the pastoral west Africans who were using them.

Like rai stones ultimately, trade beads couldn’t maintain their high stock-to-flow ratio in the face of technological progress, and therefore eventually were displaced as money.

Japanese Invasion Money

Although its not a commodity money, the Japanese Empire used the same tactic on southeast Asians as the Europeans did on Africans.

During World War II, when the Japanese Empire invaded regions throughout Asia, they would confiscate hard currency from the locals and issue their own paper currency in its place, which is referred to as “invasion money“. These conquered peoples would be forced to save and use a currency that had no backing and ultimately lost all of its value over time, and this was a way for Japan to extract their savings while maintaining a temporary unit of account in those regions.

To a less extreme extent, this is what happens throughout many developing countries today; people constantly save in their local currency that, every generation or so, gets dramatically debased.

Other Types of Commodity Money

Emil Sandstedt’s book, Money Dethroned: A Historical Journey, catalogs the various types of money used over the past thousand years or so. The book often references the writings of Ibn Battuta, the 14th century Moroccan explorer across multiple continents, who may have been the furthest traveler of pre-modern times.

Central Asians at the time of Battuta, as a nomadic culture, used livestock as money. The unit of account was a sheep, and larger types of livestock would be worth a certain multiple of sheep. As they settled into towns, however, the storage costs of livestock became too high. They eat a lot, they need space, and they’re messy.

Russians had a history of using furs as a monetary good. There are even referenced instances of using a bank-like entity that would hold furs and issue paper claims against them. Parts of the American frontier later turned to furs as money for brief periods of time as well.

Seashells were used by a few different regions as money, and in some sense were like gold and beads in the sense that they were for both money and fashion.

In addition to beads, certain regions in Africa used fine fabric as money. Sometimes it wasn’t even cut into usable shapes or meant to ever be worn; it would be held and exchanged purely for its monetary value as a salable good that could be stored for quite a while.

Another great example is the idea of using blocks of high-quality Parmesan cheese as bank collateral. Since Parmesan cheese requires 18-36 months to mature, and is relatively expensive per unit of weight in block form, niche banks in Italy are able to accept it as collateral, as a form of attractive commodity money:

MONTECAVOLO, ITALY (Bloomberg News) — The vaults of the regional bank Credito Emiliano hold a pungent gold prized by gourmands around the world — 17,000 tons of parmesan cheese.

The bank accepts parmesan as collateral for loans, helping it to keep financing cheese makers in northern Italy even during the worst recession since World War II. Credito Emiliano’s two climate-controlled warehouses hold about 440,000 wheels worth €132 million, or $187.5 million.

“This mechanism is our life blood,” said Giuseppe Montanari, a cheese producer and dealer who uses the loans to buy milk. “It’s a great way to finance our expenses at convenient rates, and the bank doesn’t risk much because they can always sell the cheese.”

The Gold Standard

After thousands of years, two commodities beat all of the others in terms of maintaining their monetary attributes across multiple geographies; gold and silver. Only they were able to retain a high enough stock-to-flow ratio to serve as money, despite civilizations constantly improving their technological capabilities throughout the world over the ages.

Humans figured out how to make or acquire basically all of the beads, shells, stones, feathers, salt, furs, livestock, and industrial metals we need with our improved tools, and so we reduced their stock-to-flow ratios and they all fell out of use as money.

However, despite all of our technological progress, we still can’t reduce the stock-to-flow ratios of gold and silver by any meaningful degree, except for rare instances in which the developed world found new continents to draw from. Gold has maintained a stock-to-flow ratio averaging between 50 and 100 throughout modern history, meaning we can’t increase the existing supply by more than about 2% per year, even when the price goes up more than 10x in a decade. Silver generally has a stock-to-flow ratio of 1o to 20 or more.

Most other commodities are below 1 for the stock-to-flow ratio, or are very flexible. Even the other rare elements, like platinum and rhodium, have very low stock-to-flow ratios due to how rapidly they are consumed by industry.

We’ve gotten better at mining gold with new technologies, but it’s inherently rare and we’ve already tapped into the “easy” surface deposits. Only the deep and hard-to-reach deposits remain, which acts like an ongoing difficulty adjustment against our technological progress. One day we could eventually break this cycle with drone-based asteroid mining or ocean floor mining or something crazy like that, but until that day (if it ever comes), gold retains its high stock-to-flow ratio. Those environments are so inhospitable that the expense to acquire gold there would likely be extraordinarily high.

Basically, whenever any commodity money came into contact with gold and silver as money, it was always gold and silver that won. Between those two finalists, gold eventually beat silver for more monetary use-cases, particularly in the 19th century.

Improvements in communication and custody services eventually led to the abstraction of gold. People could deposit their gold into banks and receive paper credit representing redeemable claims on that gold. Banks, knowing that not everyone would redeem their gold at once, went ahead and issued more claims than the gold they held, beginning the practice of fractional reserve banking. The banking system then consolidated into central banking over time in various countries, with nationwide slips of paper representing a claim to a certain amount of gold.

Barry Eichengreen’s explanation for why gold beat silver, in his book Globalizing Capital: A History of the International Monetary System, is that the gold standard won out over the bimetallic standard mostly by accident. In 1717, England’s Master of the Mint (who was none other than Sir Isaac Newton himself) set the official ratio of gold and silver as it relates to money, and according to Eichengreen he set silver too low compared to gold. As a result, most silver coins went out of circulation (as they were hoarded rather than spent, as per Gresham’s law).

Then, with the UK rising to dominance as the strongest empire of the era, the network effect of the gold standard, rather than the silver standard, spread around the world, with the vast majority of countries putting their currencies in a gold standard. Countries that stuck to the silver standard for too long, like India and China, saw their currency weaken as demand for the metal dropped in North America and Europe, resulting in negative economic consequences.

On the other hand, Saifadean Ammous, in his book The Bitcoin Standard, focuses on the improved divisibility of gold due to banking technology. As previously mentioned, gold scores equal or higher than silver in most of the attributes of money, except for divisibility. Silver is better than gold for divisibility, which made silver the more “day to day” money for thousands of years while gold was best left for kings and merchants to keep in their vaults or use as ornamentation, which are stores and displays of value respectively.

However, the technology of paper banknotes in various denominations backed by gold improved gold’s divisibility. And then, in addition to exchanging paper, we could eventually “send” money over telecommunications lines to other parts of the world, using banks and their ledgers as custodial intermediaries. This was the gold standard- the backing of paper currencies and financial communication systems with gold. There was less reason to use silver at that point, with gold being the much scarcer metal, and now basically just as divisible and even more portable thanks to the paper/telco abstraction.

I think there is an element of truth in both explanations, although I consider the explanation of Ammous to be more complete, starting with a deeper axiom regarding the nature of money itself. Banknotes made gold more divisible and thus the harder money won out over time, but network effects from political decisions can impact the timing of these sorts of changes.

Central banks around the world still hold gold in their vaults, and many of them still buy more gold each year to this day as part of their foreign-exchange reserves. It’s classified as a tier one asset in the global banking system, under modern banking regulations. Thus, although government-issued currency is no longer backed by a certain amount of gold, it remains an indirect and important piece of the global monetary system as a reserve asset. There is so far no better naturally-occurring commodity to replace it.

Gold used to trade at a 10x to 20x multiple of silver’s value for thousands of years in multiple different geographies. Over the past century, however, the gold-to-silver price ratio has averaged over 50x. Silver seems to have structurally lost a lot of its historical monetary premium relative to gold over the past century. Chart via Longtermtrends.net:

Gold Silver Ratio

If you prefer listening to reading for this section, I had a February 2022 discussion with Stig Brodersen about the history of gold and commodities.

Fiat Currency

Historically, a number of cultures have attempted periods of paper currency, issued by the government and backed by nothing.

Often it was the result of currency that was once backed (a gold standard or silver standard), but the government created too much of the paper due to war or other issues, and had to default on the metal backing by eliminating its ability to be converted back into the metal upon request. In that sense, currency devaluation becomes a form of tax and/or wealth confiscation. The public holds their savings in the paper currency, and then the rug is pulled out from under them.

The general argument for why fiat currencies exist, is that most governments, if possible, do not want to be constrained by gold or other scarce monies, and instead want to have more flexibility with their spending.

The earliest identified use of paper currency was in China over a thousand years ago, which makes sense considering that paper was invented in that region. They eventually shifted towards government monopoly on paper currency, and combined with an elimination of its ability to be converted back into silver, resulted in the first fiat currency, along with the inflation that comes with that. It didn’t last very long.

Fiat currency is interesting, because unlike the history of commodity money, it’s a step down in terms of scarcity. Gold beat out all of the other commodity monies over centuries of globalization and technological development, and then gold itself was defeated by… pieces of paper?

This is generally attributed to technology and government power. As clans became kingdoms, and as kingdoms became nation states, along with the creation of banking systems and improvements in communication systems, governments could become a larger part of everyday life. Once gold became sufficiently centralized in the vaults of banks and central banks, and paper claims were issued against it, the only remaining step was to end the redeemability of that paper and enforce its continued usage through legal obligation.

Debasing Currency and Empowering Wars

Currency debasement often happened gradually under metallic and bimetallic currency regimes, with history of it going back three or four thousand years. It took the form of reducing the amount of the valuable metal (such as gold or silver) and either adding base metal or putting decorative holes through the center of it to reduce the weight.

In other words, a ruler often found himself faced with budget deficits, and having to make the difficult choice between cutting spending or raising taxes. Finding both to be politically challenging, he would sometimes resort to keeping taxes the same, diluting the content of gold or silver in the coins, and spending more coins with less precious metal in each coin, while expecting it to still be treated with the same purchasing power per coin.

For example, a king can collect a 1,000 gold coins in taxes, melt them down and make new coins that are each 90% gold (with the other 10% made from some cheap filler metal), and spend 1,111 gold coins back into the economy with the same amount of gold. They do look pretty similar to most people, but some discerning people will notice. Years later, if that’s not enough, he could re-melt them and make them 80% gold, and spend 1,250 of them into the economy…

At first, these slightly-debased coins would be treated as how they were before, but as the coins are increasingly debased, it would become obvious. Peoples’ savings would decline in value, as they found over time that their stash of gold and silver was only fractional gold and silver. Foreign merchants in particular would be quick to demand more of these debased gold coins in exchange for their goods and services.

Gold-backed paper currencies and fiat currencies are the modern version of that, and so the debasement can happen much faster.

At first, fiat currencies were created temporarily, in times of war. After the shift from commodity money to gold-backed paper, the gold-backing would be briefly suspended as an emergency action for a number of years, and then re-instated (usually with a significant devaluation, to a lower amount of gold per unit of currency, since a lot of currency was issued during the emergency period).

This is a faster and more efficient way to devalue a currency than to actually debase the metal. The government doesn’t have to collect everyone’s coins and re-melt them. Instead, everybody is holding paper money that they trust to be redeemable for a certain amount of gold, and the government can break that trust, suspend that redeemability, print a ton of paper money, and then re-peg that paper money such that each unit of paper currency is redeemable for a much smaller amount of gold, before people realize what is happening to their savings.

That method instantly debases peoples’ money while they continue to hold it, and can be done overnight with the stroke of a pen.

Throughout the 20th century, this tactic spread around the world like a virus. Prior to paper currencies, governments would run out of fighting capability if they ran low on gold. Governments would use up their gold reserves and raise additional war taxes, but there were limits in terms of how much gold they had and how much they could realistically tax for unpopular wars before the population would rebel. However, by having all of their citizens on a gold-backed paper currency, they could devalue everyone’s savings for the war without an official tax, by printing a lot of money, spending it into the economy, and then eliminating or reducing the gold peg before people knew what was happening to their money.

This allowed governments to fight much larger wars by extracting more savings from their citizens, which led their international opponents to debase their currencies with similar tactics as well if they wanted to win.

Ironically, the fact that fiat currencies have no cost to produce, is what gave them the biggest cost of all.

Bretton Woods and the Petrodollar

After World War I, and throughout the tariff wars and World War II period thereafter, many countries went off the gold standard or devalued their currencies relative to gold.

John Maynard Keynes, the famous economist, said in 1924:

In truth, the gold standard is already a barbarous relic.

By 1934, gold was made illegal to own. It was punishable by up to 10 years in prison for Americans to own it. The dollar was no longer redeemable for gold by American citizens, although it was still redeemable for official foreign creditors, which was an important part of maintaining the dollar’s credibility. Shortly after Americans were forced to sell their gold to the government in exchange for dollars, the dollar was devalued relative to gold, which benefited the government at the expense of those who were forced to sell it.

It remained illegal for Americans to own gold for about four decades until the mid-1970s. Interestingly enough, that overlapped quite cleanly with the period where US Treasuries underperformed inflation. Basically, the main release valve that people could turn to instead of cash or Treasuries as savings assets, was made illegal to them:

Gold Outlawed

It’s rather ironic- gold was a “barbarous relic” and yet apparently had to be confiscated and pushed out of use by the threat of imprisonment, and hoarded only by the government during a period of intentional currency devaluation. If it were truly such a relic, it would have fallen out of usage on its own and the government would have had little need to own any.

Making gold illegal to own was hard to enforce though. There were not many prosecutions for it, and it’s not as though authorities went door-to-door looking for it.

By 1944 towards the end of World War II after most currencies were sharply devalued, the Bretton Woods agreement was reached. Most countries pegged their currency to the dollar, and the United States dollar remained pegged to gold (but only redeemable to large foreign creditors, not American citizens). By extension, a pseudo gold standard was temporarily re-established.

This lasted only 27 years until 1971, when the United States no longer had enough gold to maintain redemption for its dollars, and thus ended the gold standard for itself and most of the world. There were too many dollar claims compared to how much gold the US had:

Dollar Crisis Bretton Woods Failure

Chart Source: BIS Working Papers No 684

The Bretton Woods system was poorly-constructed from the beginning, because domestic and foreign banks could lend dollars into existence without having to maintain a certain amount of gold to back those dollars. The mechanism for dollar creation and gold were completely decoupled from each other, in other words, and so it was inevitable that the quantity of dollars in existence would quickly outpace how much gold the US Treasury had in its vaults. As the amount of dollars multiplied and the amount of available gold did not, any smart foreign creditor would begin redeeming dollars for gold and draining the Treasury’s vaults. The Treasury would be quickly drained of its gold until they either sharply devalued the dollar peg or ended the peg altogether, which they did.

Since that time, over 50 years now, virtually all countries in the world have been on a fiat currency system, which is the first time in history this has happened. Switzerland was an exception that kept their gold standard until 1999, but for most countries it has been over 50 years since they were on it.

However, the US dollar still has a vestige of commodity-backing, which is part of what kept this system together for so long. In the 1970s, the US made a deal with Saudi Arabia and other OPEC countries to only sell their oil in dollars, regardless of which country was buying. In return, the US would provide military protection and trade deals. And thus the petrodollar system was born. We’ve had to deal with the consequences of this awkward relationship ever since.

While the dollar was not pegged to any specific price of oil in this system, this petrodollar system made it so that any country in the world that needed to import oil, needed dollars to do so. Thus, universal demand for dollars was established, as long as the US had enough military might and influence in the Middle East to maintain the agreement with the oil exporting nations.

Other countries continued to issue their own currencies but held gold, dollars (mainly in the form of US Treasuries), and other foreign currency assets as reserves to back up their currencies. Most of their currencies were not pegged to any specific dollar, oil, or gold value during this time, but having a large reserve that they could use to actively maintain the strength of their currency was a key part of why global creditors would accept their currency.

The biggest benefit from the petrodollar system, as analyst Luke Gromen has argued, is that it contributed to the US’s Cold War victory over the Soviet Union during the 1970s and 1980s. The petrodollar agreement and associated military buildup to enforce it was a strong chess move by the US to gain influence over the Middle East and its resources. However, Gromen also argues that when the Soviet Union fell in the early 1990s, the US should have pivoted and given up this system to avoid ongoing structural trade deficits, but did not, and so its industrial base was aggressively hollowed out. Since then, China and other countries have used the system against the US, and the US also bled out tremendous resources trying to maintain its hegemony in the Middle East with its wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

An international gold standard looks like this, with each major country pegging its own currency to a fixed amount of gold and holding gold in reserve, for which it was redeemable to its citizens and foreign creditors:

Gold Peg Chart

The Bretton Woods pseudo gold standard involved the dollar being backed by gold, but only redeemable to foreign creditors in limited amounts. Foreign currencies pegged themselves to the dollar, and held dollars/Treasuries and gold in reserve:

Bretton Woods Chart

The petrodollar system made it so that only dollars could buy oil imports around the world, and so countries globally hold a combination of dollars, gold, and other major currencies as reserves, with an emphasis on dollars. If countries want to strengthen their currencies, they can sell some reserves and buy back their own currency. If countries want to weaken their currencies, they can print more of their currency and buy more reserve assets.

Petrodollar Chart

Over time, that demand for dollars was broadened via trade and debt. If two countries trade goods or services, they often do so in dollars. When loans are made internationally, they are often done so in dollars, and the world now has over $13 trillion in dollar-denominated debt, owed to all sorts of places including lenders in Europe and China. All of that dollar-denominated debt represents additional demand for dollars, since dollars are required to service that debt. Basically, the petrodollar deal helped initiate and maintain the network effect at a critical time, until it became rather self-sustaining.

This system gives the United States considerable geopolitical influence, because it can sanction any country and cut it off from the dollar-based system.

One of the key flaws of the petrodollar system, however, is that all of this demand for the dollar makes US exports more expensive (less competitive) and makes imports less expensive, and so the US began running structural trade deficits once we established the system, totaling over $14 trillion in cumulative deficits as of this writing. From 1944-1971 the US drew down its gold reserves in order to maintain the Bretton Woods dollar system, whereas from 1974-present, the US instead drew down its industrial base to maintain the petrodollar system.

US Trade Balance

Chart Source: Trading Economics

As the FT described in a clever article back in 2019, this petrodollar system ironically gave the United States a form of Dutch Disease. For those who aren’t familiar with the term, Investopedia has a good article on Dutch Disease. Here’s a summary:

The term Dutch disease was coined by The Economist magazine in 1977 when the publication analyzed a crisis that occurred in the Netherlands after the discovery of vast natural gas deposits in the North Sea in 1959. The newfound wealth and massive exports of oil caused the value of the Dutch guilder to rise sharply, making Dutch exports of all non-oil products less competitive on the world market. Unemployment rose from 1.1% to 5.1%, and capital investment in the country dropped.

Dutch disease became widely used in economic circles as a shorthand way of describing the paradoxical situation in which seemingly good news, such as the discovery of large oil reserves, negatively impacts a country’s broader economy.

As the FT argues (correctly in my view), making virtually all global oil priced in dollars basically gave the United States a form of Dutch Disease. Except instead of finding oil or gas, we engineered a system so that every country needs dollars, and so we need to export a lot of dollars via a structural trade deficit (and thus, the dollar as a global reserve asset basically served the role of a big oil/gas discovery).

This system, much like the Netherlands’ natural gas discovery, kept US currency persistently stronger at any given time than it should be on a trade balance basis. This made actual US exports rather uncompetitive, boosted our import power (especially for the upper classes) and prevented the US balance of trade from ever normalizing for decades.

Japan and Germany became major exporters at our expense, and for example, their auto industries thrived globally while the US auto industry faltered and led to the creation of the “Rust Belt” across the midwestern and northeast part of the country. And then China grew and did the same thing to the United States over the past twenty years; they ate our manufacturing lunch. Meanwhile, Taiwan and South Korea became the hubs of the global semiconductor market, rather than the United States.

That petrodollar system is starting to crack under its own weight, as trade deficits have collected into a massively negative net international investment position for the US, and the US has more wealth concentration than the rest of the developed world because we hollowed out a lot of our blue collar workforce specifically. This causes rising political tensions and desires (so far unsuccessful) to reduce the trade deficit and rebuild our industrial base. Foreigners take their persistent dollar surpluses and buy productive US assets with them like stocks, real estate, and land. In other words, the US sells its appreciating financial assets in exchange for depreciating consumer goods:

US Net International Investment Position

My article on the petrodollar system went into additional detail on the history of the US dollar as the global reserve currency, from the pre-Bretton Woods era to the petrodollar system.

Potential Post-Petrodollar Designs

There are proposals by policymakers and analysts to rebalance the global payments system, and the changing nature of geopolitics is pointing in that direction as well.

For example, Russia began pricing its oil partly in euros over the past few years, and China has put considerable work into launching a digital currency that may expand their global reach, at least with some of their most dependent trade partners. The United States is no longer the biggest commodity importer, and its share of global GDP continues to decrease, which makes the existing petrodollar system less tenable.

If several large fiat currencies can be used to buy oil, then the model looks more like this (and many tertiary currencies would manage themselves relative to these main currencies that have the scale and influence to buy oil and other foreign goods):

Decentralization Chart

If a major scarce neutral reserve asset (e.g. gold or bitcoin or digital SDRs or something along these lines, depending on your conception of where trends are going over the next decade or two) is used as a globally-recognized form of money, then a decentralized model can also look like this:

Neutral Reserve Asset Chart

Overall, it’s clear that the trend in global payments is towards digitization and decentralization away from one single country’s currency, but it’s unclear precisely how the next system will turn out and on what timeline it will change. It continues to be a subject that I analyze closely for news and data.

Price Inflation from a Negative Baseline

The long arc of human history is deflationary. As our technology improves over time, we become more productive, which reduces the labor/resource cost of most goods and services. This is particularly true over the past couple centuries as humanity exponentially tapped into dense forms of energy. Prior to that, our rate of productivity growth was much slower.

For an example of productivity, people used to farm by hand. By harnessing the utility of work horses and simple equipment, it empowered one person to do the work of several people. Then, the invention of the tractor and similar advanced equipment empowered one person to do the work of ten or more people. As tractor technology got bigger and better, this figure probably jumped to thirty or more people. And then, we can imagine a fleet of self-driving farming equipment allowing one person to do the work of a hundred people. As a result, a smaller and smaller percentage of the population needs to work in agriculture in order to feed the whole population. This makes food less expensive and frees up everyone else for other productive pursuits.

Gold has historically appreciated against most other commodities over time, like an upward sine wave. Alternatively, we can say that most commodities depreciated in price against gold like a downward sine wave. For example, there are inflationary cycles where copper increases in price compared to gold, but over multiple decades of cycles, gold has steadily appreciated against copper. For agricultural commodities that are less scarce, the trend is even stronger.

Here’s a chart of the copper-to-gold ratio showing its structural decline and cyclical exceptions since 1850, for example:

Copper Gold Ratio

Chart Source: Long Term Trends

And here’s wheat priced in gold since 1910:

Gold Wheat Ratio

Chart Source: Priced in Gold

This is because over time, our advancing technology has made us more efficient at harvesting those other commodities. However, gold’s extreme scarcity and rather strict stock-to-flow ratio of over 50x has made it so that our technology advancements in finding and mining gold are offset by the fact that we’ve already mined the “easy” gold deposits and the remaining deposits are getting deeper and harder. We never truly get more efficient at retrieving gold, in that sense. It’s a built-in ongoing difficulty adjustment.

During the late 1800s and early 1900s USA, which is when the country became a rising power globally, the country was on a gold standard and in a period of structural deflation. Prices of most things went down because land was abundant and huge advancements in technology during the industrial age made people far more productive.

An even more extreme example would be television prices over the past five decades. Moore’s law, industrial automation, and labor offshoring has made televisions exponentially better and cheaper over time, especially when priced in gold. Similarly, cell phones decades ago were very large, basic, and expensive toys for the wealthy. Now, many people in the poorest regions of the world have powerful smartphones as a normal course of life. They have supercomputers in their pockets.

Overall, we can say that the baseline inflation rate is some negative number (aka deflation), and how negative it is at any given time depends on the pace of technological advancement. Baseline inflation only becomes a positive number if we are backtracking in some way, and thus encountering more scarcity and less abundance. This could be due to malinvestment or war, for example.

By holding the most salable good (such as gold, historically), your purchasing power gradually appreciates over time because the labor/resource cost of most other things goes down whereas that salable good retains most or all of its scarcity and value. The vast majority of commodities, products, and services structurally decrease in price gradually relative to your strong store of value.

One way to measure this is by looking at the broad money supply per capita over time relative to the consumer price index. Here’s a chart of their 5-year rolling average growth rates for the United Kingdom:

UK Inflation

We can see that there is usually a positive gap between broad money supply growth per capita, and consumer prices. Broad money supply per capita increased by an average of 5.3% per year during this 150+ year period, while a basket of goods and services increased by an average of only 3.1%. In other words, monetary inflation is usually a bit faster than price inflation.

In a very rough sense by this way of looking at it, real productivity growth was about 2.2% per year, which is the difference between these figures. What this means is that in any given year, the resource/labor costs of a broad basket of goods and services goes down by an average of 2.2% due to technological progress, but the amount of money that people have goes up by 5.3%, and as such, actual prices go up by only 3.1%.

So, price inflation is not 3.1% from a baseline of zero; it’s 5.3% from a baseline of -2.2%. Actual resource costs for goods and services go down most years rather than stay flat, but due to our inflationary monetary framework, they go up in price anyway.

The reason this is only a rough measure is because 1) the CPI basket changes over time and may not be fully representative and 2) money supply can become more concentrated or less concentrated over time and thus does not always reflect the buying power of the median person. There is no way to directly measure technological deflation; it can only be estimated.

Another way to check this is to simply see to what extent gold appreciated in price against the British pound, and the answer is about 4.0% per year over this same 150+ year time period. Gold appreciated in price faster than the CPI basket inflation rate by about 0.9% per year (the difference between 4.0% and 3.1%, which compounds quite a bit over a century), and can buy you a bit more copper, oil, wheat, or many other goods and services than it could 50, 100, or 150 years ago, unlike the British pound which buys you a lot less than it used to. Higher-quality and scarcer goods like meat have roughly kept up with the price of gold (although you can’t store meat for very long), and select few assets like the absolute best/scarcest UK property locations may have appreciated a bit faster than gold (although they required continued maintenance costs along the way which makes up for that difference).

The takeaway from this section is that the growth in the broad money supply per capita is the “true” inflation rate. However, the baseline that we measure it against is not zero; it’s a mildly negative number which we can’t precisely measure, but that we can estimate and infer, that represents ongoing increases in productivity due to technology. Prices of most things stay relatively stable or preferably keep going down as priced in the most salable good (such as gold, historically) over the long run, but go up in most years when measured in a depreciating and weaker unit of account such as the British pound.

The MMT Description of Fiat Currency

Some economists disagree with the commodity view of money, and argue that money originates with the government. This is called Chartalism, and its origins go back more than a century.

Decades ago, Warren Mosler and others resurfaced this idea, into what is now popularly known as Modern Monetary Theory or MMT.

I have often felt that Mosler describes the case for that school of thought well. He doesn’t sugar-coat things, and instead speaks very directly:

Start with the government trying to provision itself and how does it do it. There are different ways to do it throughout history. One way is just to go out and take slaves. Another way the British did is they provisioned their navy by going to bars late at night and dragging them onto ships. It’s called impressing sailors.

We pretend to be more civilized as I like to say, and we use a monetary system. So how does a government do it? Clean sheet of paper, what you do, is you establish a tax that is payable in something that people don’t have. So what you want to do is transfer resources from the private sector to the public sector. You want people who are out there doing whatever they are doing, to suddenly be working for the government. You need soldiers, you need police, you need health workers, you need people in education. How do you get these people out of the private sector and into the public sector?

First thing you do is you levy a tax. You need a tax liability, and it has to be coercive. And for this example I’ll use a property tax. You put a tax on everybody’s house, and you make it payable in your new unit of account, your new unit, your thing, your tax credit, the thing that is used to pay the tax. The dollar, the yen, or the euro- they are all tax credits.

What has happened is, you’ve created sellers of real goods and services who now need your tax credit, or they’re going to lose their house. You’ve created unemployment- people looking for paid work. Unemployment is not about people looking to volunteer at the American Cancer Society; it’s about people looking for work because they need or want the money. And the problem with government when you want to provision yourself is that there’s no unemployment. No unemployment in terms of your currency; there may be people willing to work for other things but not for your currency. You need unemployment in terms of your currency, looking to earn your unit of account.

So you levy a tax, now people need your unit of account, all of these people show up looking for work, all of those people are unemployed. You now hire the unemployed that your tax created, and they are now provisioning your government.

-Warren Mosler, 2017 MMT Conference

I also liked this description, where he explained his view in an economic debate:

The way we do it, is we slap on a tax for something that nobody has, and in order to get the funds to pay that tax, you have to come to the government for it, and so that way the government can spend its otherwise worthless currency and provision itself.

Now the way I like to explain that, is I’ll take out my business card here. Now I’ll ask this room does anybody want to buy- and this is called “how to turn litter into money”- does anybody want to buy one of these cards for a hundred dollars? No? Okay. Does anybody want to stay after hours and help vacuum the floor and clean the room and I’ll give you my cards? No? Alright. Oh by the way there’s only one door out of here and my guy is out there with a 9mm (handgun) and you can’t get out of here without one of these cards.

Can you feel the pressure now? You’re now unemployed! In terms of my cards, you were not unemployed before. You were not looking for a job that paid in my cards. Now you’re looking for a job that pays in my cards, or you’re looking to buy them from someone else that will take a job that pays in my cards.

[…]

The difference between money and litter is whether there’s a tax man [outside that door]. The guy with the 9mm is the tax man. If he can’t enforce tax collection, the value of the dollar goes to zero.

-Warren Mosler, 2013 MMT vs Austrian Debate

Nobel-laureate economist Paul Krugman put it rather similarly back in 2013:

Fiat money, if you like, is backed by men with guns.

Of course, we could just as easily ask, since the government is using force to collect taxes to provision itself, why can’t it just collect commodity money like gold with a tax, and then spend that gold to acquire its necessary provisions? Why does it need to issue its own paper currency and then tax it back?

The answer is that it doesn’t have to, but it wants to. By issuing its own currency, it profits from seigniorage, which is the difference between the face value of the money and the cost to produce and distribute it. It is, basically, a subtle inflation tax that compounds over time.

A weak government, with an economy that can’t provision most of its needs, often fails to maintain a workable fiat currency for very long. People start using alternative monies out of necessity even if the government supposedly disallows them from doing so. This happens to many developing countries. Billions of people in the world today have experienced the effects of hyperinflation or near-hyperinflation within the past generation. It’s unfortunately quite common.

However, developed countries have been more successful at maintaining seigniorage over the past five decades of the fiat system. Their currencies all lost 95% to 99% of their purchasing power over time, but it was usually gradual rather than abrupt. The system is not without its cracks as previously-discussed, but it’s certainly the most comprehensive fiat currency system ever constructed.

When optimized skillfully, a fiat currency has low volatility year-to-year, in exchange for gradually losing value over the long run. By being actively managed with taxes, spending, and central bank reserve management (creating or destroying currency in exchange for reserve assets), policymakers try to maintain a low and steady inflation rate, meaning a mild and persistent decline in the purchasing power of their currency.

A strong government can force the use of its currency over all other types of monies within its borders, at least for a medium of exchange (not necessarily a store of value), by taxing other types of transactions, and by only accepting its fiat currency as a form of payment for taxes. They can make things like gold, silver, and bitcoin less convenient as money, for example, by making each transaction with it a taxable event in terms of capital gains. If push comes to shove, they can also try to ban those things with threat of force.

The Monetization of Other Assets

Although most of us today are used to it, fiat currency has been a polarizing and inherently political subject ever since the world went onto this petrodollar standard five decades ago.

Mainstream media and economists, however, quickly adopted it as canon and rather unquestionable. For decades now, it has been the case that if someone thinks money shouldn’t be fiat currency, they’re kind of considered a kook and not taken seriously. This kind of vibe:

Gold Meme

But when you step back and think about it from first principles, this period in history is really unusual. It’s a historical aberration, and like a fish in water doesn’t even notice the water, the monetary system we operate with now seems totally normal to us.

Never before, in thousands of years of human history, has the entire world been using a money that has no resource cost or constraint. It’s an experiment, in other words, and we’re five decades into it. Many would consider it a good experiment, while others consider it a bad one, but it’s not as though it is inevitable, or the only possible outcome from here. It’s simply what we have now, and who knows what things will look like in another five decades.

To put it into perspective, this international monetary system based around centrally-managed fiat currency is only 16 years older than me. My father was 36 when the US went off the gold standard. When I grew up, after a period of financial hardship, I began collecting gold and silver coins as a kid; my father gave me silver coins as savings each year.

The Swiss dropped their gold standard when I was twelve years old, which was six years after Amazon was founded, and three years before Tesla was founded. The fiat/petrodollar standard is only four times older than bitcoin, and only two times older than the first internet browser. That’s pretty recent when you think about it like that.

Ever since the world has been on the fiat/petrodollar standard, debt as a percentage of GDP has skyrocketed to record levels and seems to be getting unstable. Considering where we are in the long-term debt cycle, investors would do well to be creative with how they envision the future. Don’t take the past 40-50 years for granted and assume that’s how it’ll always be, whether for money or anything else. We don’t know what money will look like 50 years from now.

The last time we were in a similar debt and monetary policy situation was the 1930s and 1940s, where currency devaluations and war occurred. That doesn’t mean those things have to happen, but basically, we’re in a very macro-heavy environment where structural currency changes tend to occur.

Fiscal and Monetary Policy

One of the results of fiat currency, especially towards the later stages of this five decade experiment since the 1970s, is that more people have begun to treat cash like a hot potato. We instinctively monetize other things, like art, stocks, home equity, or gold. The ratio of home prices to median income has gone up a lot, as well as the ratio of the S&P 500 to median income, or a top-notch piece of art to median income.

This chart shows the loss of purchasing power of the U.S. dollar since the Coinage Act of 1792, which is when the US dollar and the US Mint were created:

US Dollar History

Chart Source: Ian Webster, annotated by Lyn Alden

It currently takes nearly $3,000 to have as much purchasing power as $100 bought in 1792. From 1792 to 1913, the dollar’s purchasing power oscillated mildly around the same value, with over 120 years of relative stability. From 1913 onward, the policy changed and the dollar has been in perpetual decline, especially after it completely dropped the gold peg in 1971.

And it’s actually worse today than during most of this 1971-2022 Fiat/Petrodollar period, because interest rates aren’t keeping up with inflation rates anymore. The fiat system is getting less stable due to so much debt being in the system, which disallows policymakers from raising interest rates higher than the prevailing inflation rate.

Real Fed Funds Rate

Basically, for lack of good money in this fiat currency petrodollar era, especially in the post-2009 era with interest rates below inflation rates, we monetize other things with higher stock-to-flow ratios and treat them as stores of value.

In China, consumers aggressively monetize real estate. It became normal for families to own multiple homes. In the United States, consumers aggressively monetize stocks. We plow a percentage of each paycheck into broad equity indices without analyzing companies or doing any sort of due diligence, treating that basket of stocks as simply a better store of value than cash regardless of what is inside.

We can ask, for example, would we rather own dollars that went from 10 trillion in quantity ten years ago to 22 trillion today and pay basically no yield to own them, or Apple shares that went from 26 million shares ten years ago to 16 million shares today and also pay basically no yield to own it? Is the dollar better money, or is a diverse collection of fungible corporate shares better money, when it comes to storing value with a 5+ year time horizon?

AAPL Shares

This monetization of non-money securities and property opens us up to more volatility, more leverage, less liquidity, less fungibility, and more taxable events. Basically, rather than investments being special things we make with careful consideration, we shovel most of our free capital into hundreds of index investments that we don’t even analyze, since who would hold currency for any significant length of time? Fungible pieces of corporations become our money, at least for the “store of value” portion of what money is, in large part because they pay higher earnings/dividend yields than bank/bond yields and many of them decrease in quantity (deflationary) rather than constantly increase in quantity.

Some technologists, like Jeff Booth, have argued that this system of perpetual currency debasement has a negative impact on the environment because it encourages us to spend and consume on short-sighted depreciating trinkets and malinvestment more than we would if our money appreciated in value over time like it used to. With appreciating money, we would be more selective with our purchases.

Proponents of the fiat system argue that it smooths out economic downturns and allows for counter-cyclical investment and stimulus. By having a flexible monetary base, policymakers can increase or decrease the supply of money in order to provide a balancing force against credit cycles and industrial output capacity. In exchange for a persistently declining value of currency, we get a more stable currency on a year-to-year basis.

In addition, proponents of the system also argue that the system encourages more consumption and consider that to be a good thing because it keeps GDP up. By keeping people on a constant treadmill of currency debasement, it forces them to spend and invest rather than to save. If people begin to save, these policymakers often view it as “hoarding” or a “global savings glut” and consider it to be a problem. Monetary policy then is adjusted to convince people to save less, spend more, and borrow more.

From a developing market standpoint, the fiat/petrodollar standard contributes to massive booms and busts because a lot of their debt is denominated in dollars, and that debt fluctuates wildly in strength depending on the actions of US policymakers. Developing countries are often forced to tighten their monetary policy during a recession in order to defend their currency, and thus while the US gets to provide counter-cyclical support for its own economy, developing countries are forced to be pro-cyclical, contributing to a vicious cycle in their economies during recessions. In this view, the fiat/petrodollar system can be considered a form of neocolonialism; we push most of the costs of the system out into the developing countries in order to maximize the stability for the developed world.

Overall, the fiat system is showing more instability lately, and investors have to navigate a challenging environment of structurally negative inflation-adjusted cash and bond yields, along with many high asset valuations in equities and real estate.

Sovereign International Reserves

As countries accumulate trade surpluses, they keep those gains in sovereign international reserves. This represents the pool of assets that a country’s central bank can draw upon to defend the country’s currency if needed. The more reserves a country has relative to its GDP and money supply, the more defense it has against a meltdown in its fiat currency. The country can sell these reserves and buy back its own currency to support its currency per-unit value. The currency may not be backed up by gold at a redeemable rate, but it’s backed up by diverse assets as needed if its starts to rapidly lose value.

The world collectively has about $15 trillion USD-equivalents worth of official sovereign reserves. Less than $2.5 trillion of that is gold, with more than $12.5 trillion held as fiat reserves (dollars, euros, yen, franks, etc). Fiat reserves consist of government bonds and bank deposits, and can be easily frozen by the countries that issue them. In addition, many gold holdings are not held within the country, but instead are held in New York or London on their behalf.

Thus, the vast majority of sovereign official reserves, are permissioned assets rather than permissionless assets. They are non-sovereign; able to be frozen by foreign nations. War crystalizes this fact.

In February 2022, Russia invaded Ukraine. Russia had $630 billion USD-equivalents of sovereign international reserves prior to the war, representing decades of accumulated trade surpluses as sovereign savings to underpin their currency. Of this $630 billion, $130 billion consisted of gold, and the other $500 billion consisted of fiat currency and bonds. Of that $500 billion, maybe $70-$80 billion consisted of Chinese fiat assets, and the other $400+ billion consisted of European and other fiat assets. Europe subsequently froze that $400+ billion in Russian fiat assets in response to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, which is equivalent to over 20% of Russian GDP and over five years of Russian military spending; an utterly massive economic confiscation. Russia is currently in a financial crisis, and it remains to be seen if they can exert enough commodity/military pressure to have their reserves unfrozen.

Some could argue that it’s a good thing that countries hold their reserves in each other’s assets and thus can be frozen. Along with trade sanctions, this practice gives countries another lever with which to control each others’ behavior away from extremes (such as war). We’re all interdependent to one degree or another anyway. But from a pragmatic point of view, countries tend to want to reduce their vulnerabilities and external risks where possible, and that can include minimizing the ability of their stored-up central bank reserves to be confiscated or frozen by other countries.

I began writing this longform article months ago, in late 2021. Things have accelerated since then, and for example the WSJ ran an article in early March 2022 called “If Russian Currency Reserves Aren’t Really Money, the World is in for a Shock.” Here’s the opening paragraph:

“What is money?” is a question that economists have pondered for centuries, but the blocking of Russia’s central-bank reserves has revived its relevance for the world’s biggest nations—particularly China. In a world in which accumulating foreign assets is seen as risky, military and economic blocs are set to drift farther apart.

What is money?

Well, the answer to that question ties into the difference between currency and money. Currency is some other entity’s liability, and they can choose whether or not to honor that particular liability. Money is something that is intrinsically valuable in its own right to other entities, and that has no counterparty risk if you custody it yourself (although it may have pricing risk related to supply and demand). In other words, Russia’s gold is money; their FX reserves are currency. The same is true for other countries.

Fiat currency and government bonds have no intrinsic value; they represent indirect claims of value that can be blocked and confiscated. Gold has value; it’s sufficiently fungible and due to its physical properties, various entities would accept gold at the current market value. It can be self-custodied and no external nation can shut it off.

Currency acts like money most of the time until, one day, it doesn’t.

Fiat Summarized

Overall, the key feature or bug of fiat currency (depending on how you look at it) is its flexible supply and its ability to be diluted. It allows governments to spend more than they tax, by diluting peoples’ existing holdings. With this feature, it can be used to re-liquify seized-up financial situations, and stimulate an economy in a counter-cyclical way. In addition, its volatility can be minimized compared to commodity monies most of the time through active management, in exchange for ensuring gradual devaluation over time.

When things go wrong, however, fiat currency can lose value explosively. Fiat currency tends to incentivize running bigger deficits (since spending doesn’t necessarily need to be taxed for), and generally requires some degree of hard or soft coercion in order to get people to use it over harder monies, although that coercion is often rather invisible to most people most of the time, until things go wrong. And its ability to be diluted can allow for longer wars, selective bailouts for influential groups, and other forms of government spending that aren’t always transparent to citizens.

Digital Assets

With the development of the internet and cryptography in the 1980s and 1990s, many people began working on internet-native money systems. Hash Cash, Bit Gold, and B-Money were some early examples.

Some of these early pioneers wanted to be able to easily pay on the internet, which wasn’t quite as easy back then. Others were part of the cypherpunk movement: people who responded to the information age and the lack of privacy it would increasingly bring, by advocating for transactional privacy through encryption.

Freedom House, a nonprofit organization founded in 1941 and originally chaired by Eleanor Roosevelt, has indeed noted that authoritarianism has been on the rise in recent decades. More than half the world’s population lives in an authoritarian or semi-authoritarian country. People in privileged areas often fail to recognize this trend.

Freedom House

Chart Source: Freedom House

The world became more free in the 1980s and 1990s as China and the Soviet Union opened up, but then the world increasingly began chipping away at that freedom in the 2000s and 2010s, at least as far as Freedom House and various other sources measure it. China in particular is a huge surveillance and control state now, with transactions and online behavior monitored and organized, social credit scores determined from the data, and consequently near-complete control over their citizens’ behavior.

Even the developed world began introducing policies that chipped away at certain freedoms, and so Freedom House’s scores for many developed countries mildly declined over time as well. For example, the United States was ranked 94 for its freedom score back in 2010, but as of 2020 was ranked only 83. It has been reported for over a decade now, with increasing revelations over time, that the CIA and NSA have large spying operations on Americans.

The more digital the world is, the more authoritarian regimes, semi-authoritarian regimes, or would-be-authoritarian regimes are able to monitor and intervene in their subjects’ lives. Authoritarianism combined with 21st century digital surveillance technology and Big Data to organize it all, is a rather frightening prospect for a lot of people. This combination has been predicted by science fiction books for decades.

The Discovery of Digital Scarcity and the Invention of Bitcoin

The ability to transact with others is a key part of individual liberty. The more that authoritarian regimes can control that, the more power they have over their citizens’ lives.

Nobel-laureate economist Friedrich Hayek once gave an interesting statement on the subject of money:

I don’t believe we shall ever have a good money again before we take the thing out of the hands of government, that is, we can’t take them violently out of the hands of government, all we can do is by some sly roundabout way introduce something that they can’t stop.

-Friedrich Hayek, 1899-1992

Satoshi Nakamoto’s answer to that riddle in 2008 was to avoid a centralized cluster and make a peer-to-peer money system based on a distributed ledger.

I’ve been working on a new electronic cash system that’s fully peer-to-peer, with no trusted third party.

Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks like Napster, but pure P2P networks like Gnutella and Tor seem to be holding their own.

-Satoshi Nakamoto, two separate quotes from 2008

Nakamoto’s invention of bitcoin in 2008, which cited a number of projects, indeed became the first widely successful and credibly-decentralized internet money after it was launched in early 2009. In the genesis block, he referenced a topical newspaper headline about British bank bailouts, during the heart of the global financial crisis.

The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks

-Bitcoin Genesis Block

The Bitcoin network is a distributed database, also known as a public ledger or “triple entry bookkeeping”. It’s a system that allows all participants around the world to come to a consensus on the state of the ledger every ten minutes on average. Because it’s highly distributed and relatively small in terms of data, participants can store a full copy of it and reconcile it constantly with the rest of the network, with a specific protocol for determining the consensus state of the ledger. In addition to storing the whole database, participants can store their own private keys, which allow them to move coins (or fractional coins) around to different public addresses on the ledger.

If participants hold their own private keys, then their bitcoins represent assets that are not also someone’s liability. In other words, like gold, they are money rather than currency, as long as other people recognize them as having value.

Bitcoin Price Chart

Chart Source: LookIntoBitcoin.com

After Nakamoto showed the way, there have been over fifteen thousand other cryptocurrencies created. Some of them are competitors to the bitcoin network, while others are smart contract platforms to serve other purposes. So far, all of the ones directly trying to be money have not been able to gain any traction against the bitcoin network (with none of them sustaining above 5% of the network value of bitcoin), while a select few that aim to be used as smart contract utility tokens instead have retained rather large network valuations for longer periods of time.

Many people argue that bitcoin has achieved critical mass in terms of its network effect, security, immutability, and decentralization, such that while other digital assets may persist to fulfill other use-cases, none of them have a reasonable chance of competing with bitcoin in terms of being hard money. Fidelity published a good paper on this topic called Bitcoin First. Here’s the summary:

In this paper we propose:

-Bitcoin is best understood as a monetary good, and one of the primary investment theses for bitcoin is as the store of value asset in an increasingly digital world.

-Bitcoin is fundamentally different from any other digital asset. No other digital asset is likely to improve upon bitcoin as a monetary good because bitcoin is the most (relative to other digital assets) secure, decentralized, sound digital money and any “improvement” will necessarily face tradeoffs.

-There is not necessarily mutual exclusivity between the success of the Bitcoin network and all other digital asset networks. Rather, the rest of the digital asset ecosystem can fulfill different needs or solve other problems that bitcoin simply does not.

-Other non-bitcoin projects should be evaluated from a different perspective than bitcoin.

-Bitcoin should be considered an entry point for traditional allocators looking to gain exposure to digital assets.

-Investors should hold two distinctly separate frameworks for considering investment in this digital asset ecosystem. The first framework examines the inclusion of bitcoin as an emerging monetary good, and the second considers the addition of other digital assets that exhibit venture capital-like properties.

Other blockchains that attempt to increase transaction throughput on the base layer or add more computational functionality on the base layer, generally sacrifice some degree of decentralization and security to do so. Blockchains that attempt to have more privacy on the base layer generally sacrifice some degree of supply auditability.

Bitcoin is updated slowly over time via optional soft forks, but the underlying foundation is maximized towards decentralization and hardness, more so than throughput or additional functionality. Layers built on top of it can increase throughput, privacy, and functionality.

The discovery of a credible way to maintain digital scarcity, and an invention of a peer-to-peer money based on that discovery, was in some ways inevitable, although the specific form that it first appeared in could have been designed in a number of ways. The foundations of the internet were put forth in the 1970s, and so was the concept of a Merkle tree. Throughout the 1980s and 1990s the internet as we know it came into being, as more and more of the world’s computers were networked together. Proof-of-work using computer systems was invented in the 1990s, and the SHA-256 encryption was published in the early 2000s. Nakamoto put a bunch of these concepts together in a novel way in 2008, and had the right macroeconomic backdrop and right design decisions to have it succeed for well over a decade and counting.

Bitcoin’s Bottom-Up Monetization

If we go back to the gold standard for a moment, the key reason why paper claims were built on gold was to improve its medium-of-exchange capabilities. Ray Dalio described it well:

Because carrying a lot of metal money around is risky and inconvenient and creating credit is attractive to both lenders and borrowers, credible parties arise that put the hard money in a safe place and issue paper claims on it. These parties came to be known as “banks” though they initially included all sorts of institutions that people trusted, such as temples in China. Soon people treat these paper “claims on money” as if they are money itself.

-Ray Dalio, The Changing World Order

Bitcoin on the other hand is a bearer asset that is safe to self-custody in large amounts and can be sent peer-to-peer around the world over the internet. Therefore, it removes the need for paper abstraction. Some holders will still prefer custodians to hold it for them, but it’s not necessary like it is with large amounts of gold, and thus the units of the network are less prone to centralization. Unlike gold, bitcoin in large quantities is easy to transfer globally, and take custody of.

From the start, the bitcoin network was designed as a peer-to-peer network for the purpose of being a self-custodial medium of exchange. It’s not the most efficient way to exchange value, but it’s the most unstoppable way to do so online. It has no centralized third parties, no centralized attack surfaces, and sophisticated ways of running it can even get around rather hostile networks. Compared to altcoins, it is far harder to attack due to its bigger network effect and larger hash rate.

For example, one of the early use cases for bitcoin back in 2010/2011 was that Wikileaks was dropped by PayPal and other payment providers, so it began accepting bitcoin donations instead. Satoshi himself expressed concern about this on the forum at the time, due to bitcoin still being in its infancy back then relative to the amount of attention this would bring.

Kind of like how a tank is designed to get from point A to point B through resistance, but is not well-suited for commuting to work everyday, the base layer of the bitcoin network is designed to make global payments through resistance, but is not well-suited for buying coffee on the way to work.

In that sense, the bitcoin network has utility, for both ethical and unethical participants (just like any powerful technology). And because it is broken up into 21 million units (each with eight decimal places, resulting in 2.1 quadrillion sub-units), it is a finite digital commodity.

And that’s how Satoshi described it:

As a thought experiment, imagine there was a base metal as scarce as gold but with the following properties: – boring grey in colour – not a good conductor of electricity – not particularly strong, but not ductile or easily malleable either

– not useful for any practical or ornamental purpose


Read the original article

Comments

  • By throw0101a 2022-03-281:008 reply

    Some good books on the general topic that I've read over the years are Debt: The First 5000 Years by Graeber:

    * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt:_The_First_5000_Years

    Money: The True Story of a Made-Up Thing by Goldstein (also of NPR's Planet Money):

    * https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/50358103-money

    * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Goldstein

    And The Power of Gold: The History of an Obsession by Bernstein:

    > In this exciting book, the late Peter L. Bernstein tells the story of history's most coveted, celebrated, and inglorious asset: gold. From the ancient fascinations of Moses and Midas through the modern convulsions caused by the gold standard and its aftermath, gold has led many of its most eager and proud possessors to a bad end. And while the same cycle of obsession and desperation may reverberate in today's fast-moving, electronically-driven markets, the role of gold in shaping human history is the striking feature of this tumultuous tale. Such is the power of gold.

    * https://www.wiley.com/en-us/The+Power+of+Gold:+The+History+o...

    * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_L._Bernstein

    Bernstein was also the author of Against The Gods: The Remarkable Story of Risk.

    • By unmole 2022-03-282:177 reply

      > Debt: The First 5000 Years by Graeber

      Graber misinterprets the history and ideas of mainstream economics, calls the safest securities on the planet a debt that will never be paid and spins bizarre conspiracy theories about the Iraq invasion. You might learn about the quaint cultural practices of remote tribes but I strongly disagree that it is a good book to understand money in the real world.

      A far better resource is Perry Mehrling's Economics of Money and Banking course: https://www.ineteconomics.org/education/courses/the-economic...

      • By nostrademons 2022-03-283:087 reply

        Graeber is a poor economist but a good anthropologist. Debt: The First 5000 years deserves props for debunking the myth of barter coming before credit and for its observations on how small economies of mutually known & trusting people operate. It doesn't make sense to scale these up to society-wide systems; indeed, the reason we can have societies on the scale of nation-states comes from financial innovations that replaced mutual trust & credit with ledgers and double-entry bookkeeping.

        Interestingly, you can see the emergence of small-scale credit forming with things like how a group of mutual friends splits the tab when going out to meals. "I'll get mine, you get yours" doesn't usually survive as people get to know each other and start interacting more regularly, rather it's "I'll get this time, you get the next time", and it all works out as long as everything feels fair, because everybody has a pretty good memory for when they get shafted.

        • By unmole 2022-03-284:0010 reply

          > Graeber is a poor economist

          Is exactly my point which is why said that Debt is a terrible book to understand money in the real world.

          > deserves props for debunking the myth of barter coming before credit

          Do you think Graber came up with this? Or that this wasn't the mainstream view amongst economists? Allyn Young wrote matter-of-factly about it for a popular science book in 1924[0]. And I don't mean to say he was the first one to realise this, I'm saying this was a common view. And Young wasn't some avant-garde heterodox radical. He was the president of American Economic Association. It doesn't get more mainstream than that!

          And this what I mean by misrepresentation of the history and ideas of mainstream economics. And Graber doesn't stop there. He pretends like somehow all of economics is hinged upon this Myth of Barter.

          Adam Smith is not the supreme arbiter and law-giver of economics. FWIW, Graber's critism of Adam Smith in this instance is justified. But as is typical of Graber, he doesn't stop there. He goes on to say thet Adam Smith's famous "It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own self-interest" thesis is wrong because shopkeepers of the time mostly sold goods on credit and thus the customers were in fact depending on their benevolence.

          If credit was benevolence, that would make banks the most benevolent entities on the planet.

          0: https://d396qusza40orc.cloudfront.net/money/readings/Allyn%2...

          • By vintermann 2022-03-287:272 reply

            Graeber did not claim to be the first debunking the myth of barter.

            However, what does it even matter, when the zombie keeps walking to this day? The linked article repeats the myth of barter.

            And lest people think it's only right-ish economists that keep repeating it, Yanis Varoufakis did so too (in his book "Talking to my daughter about the economy").

            And yeah sure, nothing "hinges" on the myth of barter. But it is a symptom, a glaring illustration that economists are really bad at arguing from how real people actually act, and cheerfully embrace just-so stories that support their preferred ideas - which is the linked article's whole game, too.

            • By unmole 2022-03-287:403 reply

              > Graeber did not claim to be the first debunking the myth of barter.

              I didn't say Graber claimed that. I was refuting the common defence of the book and emphasising that it was already a mainstream view.

              > However, what does it even matter, when the zombie keeps walking to this day?

              > But it is a symptom, a glaring illustration that economists are really bad at arguing from how real people actually act

              How much does the historical origin of money matter to the understanding economics of today?

              Economists aren't particularly interested in the origin of money. Any references to barter are usually in fluffy lines like this article or as dumb thought experimens. The fact that some of them get it wrong is not indicative of anything.

              > cheerfully embrace just-so stories that support their preferred ideas

              Which is rife across the humanities and not exclusive to economics. Hell, Graber's entire book is full of just that.

              If you look at popular books or even school text books, they will cheerfully claim that seasons are caused by the change in distance between the earth and the sun. That doesn't mean people working on climate models don't know that's not the case.

              And Varoufakis is <insert polite term for crackpot>, not exactly representative of mainstream economics.

              • By md_ 2022-03-288:122 reply

                I think your criticism of Graeber is somewhat fair. And it's a fair point that incorrect popular/lay theories don't mean experts don't know how things actually work.

                That said, I do think Graeber is right to emphasize the role of culture and belief--anthropological ideas--as an antidote to overly quantitative/mechanistic models. I'm not an economist, but it does seem like behavioral economics was pretty revolutionary in advancing the idea that humans are not just rational utility maximizers, despite Keynes using the term "animal spirits" nearly 100 years ago.

                Again, speaking as a layperson, it's frankly a bit weird to me how distant economics, anthropology, and psychology seem to be from each other.

                • By LudwigNagasena 2022-03-289:272 reply

                  > I do think Graeber is right to emphasize the role of culture and belief--anthropological ideas--as an antidote to overly quantitative/mechanistic models

                  This is a false and misguided dichotomy. Nothing prevents you from taking culture and beliefs into account when you create a model.

                  • By md_ 2022-03-2811:211 reply

                    Can you give examples of this done well? Genuinely curious, as I’ve not seen it.

                    • By LudwigNagasena 2022-03-2819:13

                      Many New Keynesian models posit price and wage stickiness.

                      Labor search models usually have a notion of bargaining power.

                  • By um-ha-puh-uh 2022-03-2812:14

                    I do ^^

                    "Just-so stories that support their preferred ideas" + "so nothing prevents you from taking culture and beliefs into account when you create a model."

                    A litte OT but,... years ago i read a HN-Topic, about um 'What to change if we could'. I read some postings, where people seem realy angry with abuse, misuse and malpractice, done by people who may or even may not wanted to be remembered as: 'This is our work, we do this cos we are in empowered to do so' (won't explain it more, back to more context:)

                    My conclusion by that time was, questioning: 'Is privatizing favourable?' Cos there is confusing data, complex situations and a need for easy hypotheses...(and solutions maybe) The assumption that time was, that the gov spend a (huge) budged to pacify many more conflicting 'partys' than a private entity would like to do/or will, cos generating income through excessive spending (may 'only work when'/'need expotential growth') means nothing more than the need to reinvest profits to bigup the businesses.

                    (sry, non native english-speaker)

                    And now really OT, I remember some of the friends around Putin are building contractors, and the TV-shows about the war in Ukraine or Syria before um...

                    [turns-around-in-a-circle] (-;

                • By unmole 2022-03-2812:332 reply

                  Behavioral economics, the bastard child of psychology, is built on an edifice of fashionable nonsense. The field is rife with grand generalizations based on dubious conclusions from small under-powered behavioral experiments. Just look at what a disaster the much hyped priming studies turned out to be. I would not count on behavioral economics to advance a more accurate understanding of the human condition.

                  • By allmodelsRwrong 2022-03-2813:411 reply

                    I know very little about economics but I am compelled to point out the irony in your comment.

                    How I understood your comment: "This whole field, consisting up of many people trying to do understand things, is just a bunch of nonsense generalizations."

                  • By disgruntledphd2 2022-03-2815:592 reply

                    > Behavioral economics, the bastard child of psychology, is built on an edifice of fashionable nonsense.

                    This is a relatively fair take. That being said, at least it's damaged and dethroned the equally misguided frictionless spheres of homo economicus.

                    • By unmole 2022-03-2817:021 reply

                      Frictionless spheres are fine in Physics 101 and Homo economicus is fine in Economics 101. Like all models, economic models too are wrong but some of them are useful. The bulk of economics after 101 is about how the models break.

                      The idea that humans are not perfectly rational self-interested actors has been part of mainstream economics at least since Keynes.

                    • By md_ 2022-03-2816:05

                      Yes, this was my point: that prior, economists had silly ideas about humans which make no sense.

              • By jkhdigital 2022-03-2810:361 reply

                > How much does the historical origin of money matter to the understanding economics of today?

                A lot? Money is a social construct, so the history of money is something like a record of empirical observations that must be accounted for by any proposed theory of money. The fact that most modern economists don't seem too concerned with this doesn't mean that it's not important.

                • By unmole 2022-03-2811:311 reply

                  Right, and programmers should first learn Panini's grammer before they start writing code in constructed languages.

                  • By zeckalpha 2022-03-2812:531 reply

                    It is spelled grammar.

                    My favorite course I took in college was historical linguistics. But I was a linguistics major…

                    I do expect CS students to take a history of computing course.

                    • By unmole 2022-03-2817:171 reply

                      > It is spelled grammar.

                      Maybe it's interesting to linguistics majors but the rest of us tend to ignore typos when the meaning is clear from the context.

                      > My favorite course I took in college was historical linguistics.

                      And?

                      > I do expect CS students to take a history of computing course.

                      The overwhelming majority of them don't and seem to do just fine.

                      • By zeckalpha 2022-03-2823:11

                        Then history is doomed to repeat itself…

              • By I-M-S 2022-03-2815:051 reply

                If you're going to dismiss all economists & anthropologists that do not subscribe to your opinions, you're not going to advance your opinions very much

                • By unmole 2022-03-2815:19

                  > If you're going to dismiss all economists & anthropologists that do not subscribe to your opinions, you're not going to advance your opinions very much

                  The idea that Varufakis is not mainstream is not even remotely controversial. I have issues with Graeber's misrepresentation of economics, not his anthropology.

            • By jkhdigital 2022-03-2810:232 reply

              I'm pretty sure the "myth" of barter is really just an educational/explanatory crutch that economists have used to introduce laypersons to the idea of money without overwhelming them with caveats and nuances. Kind of like how schoolchildren learn that the American Revolution was a revolt against unjust "taxation without representation".

              You can tell that Graeber isn't an economist because he mistakes the oversimplified educational narrative for what monetary economists actually believe about the history of money and credit. But you have a fair point--even economists often fool themselves about this, possibly because the field has grown to the point where many aren't as familiar with this topic as they should be (I don't think that was the case 100 years ago).

              • By andrepd 2022-03-2813:252 reply

                This is taught in universities in Economics degrees (along with many other misconceptions, as a matter of fact). So it's not at all the case you're saying.

                • By nradov 2022-03-2818:54

                  Do you have examples of that from actual current university course materials?

                • By jkhdigital 2022-03-3010:46

                  There’s a big difference between “economics degree holder” and “economist”

              • By scyclow 2022-03-2814:311 reply

                Even if it is an oversimplified story to explain a more difficult concept, it's often used as a moral justification. And really, I'd say Debt is more about the moral justifications of capitalism than it is an economic argument one way or the other.

                • By unmole 2022-03-2814:48

                  > it's often used as a moral justification.

                  A moral justification for what?

          • By SailingSperm 2022-03-284:171 reply

            >Adam Smith's famous "It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own self-interest" thesis is wrong because shopkeepers of the time mostly sold goods on credit and thus the customers were in fact depending on their benevolence.

            It's not necessarily wrong though. Giving credit can still be a self-interest motivated action, in fact it would most often only be that - generating a higher reward to the risk taken by giving it - as banks try to manage. So yes, banks aren't run by benevolence, and they aren't the most benevolent entities on the planet (far from it) - they're just economically rational actors, that are benefited by offering credit.

            • By unmole 2022-03-284:201 reply

              Err? I'm not saying Adam Smith is wrong. I'm saying Graber's characterisation of Smith's argument is wrong.

              Or did I misunderstand your comment?

              • By SailingSperm 2022-03-285:07

                Apologies! I misread your comment - which I'm not sure how, upon re-reading and finding it pretty clear.

          • By rcMgD2BwE72F 2022-03-289:12

            >Do you think Graber came up with this?

            I believe Graeber acknowledge that Marcel Mauss came up with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gift_(essay) long before him ("1925 essay by the French sociologist Marcel Mauss that is the foundation of social theories of reciprocity and gift exchange")

          • By kipchak 2022-03-286:082 reply

            I’m about halfway through Debt and enjoying it so far, but that Adam Smith line, The Wizard of Oz being weirdly recognized as a Sliver/Gold standard allegory and the history of the creation of IBM were all odd enough to make wonder about the rest of the book.

            • By mellavora 2022-03-287:061 reply

              The Wizard of Oz was actually in fact a silver/gold allegory.

              https://economics.rutgers.edu/joomlatools-files/docman-files...

              L. Frank Baum's The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, however, is not only a child's tale but also a sophisticated commentary on the political and economic debates of the Populist Era.1 Previous interpretations have focused on the political and social aspects of the allegory. The most important of these is Littlefield ([1966] 1968), although his interpretation was adumbrated by Nye (1951), Gardner and Nye (1957), Sackett (I960), and Bewley ([1964] 1970). My purpose is to unlock the references in the Wizard of Oz to the monetary debates of the 1890s. When the story is viewed in this light, the real reason the Cowardly Lion fell asleep in the field of poppies, the identity of the Wizard of Oz, the significance of the strange number of hallways and rooms in the Emerald Palace, and the reason the Wicked Witch of the West was so happy to get one of Dorothy's shoes become clear. Thus interpreted, the Wizard of Oz becomes a powerful pedagogic device. Few students of money and banking or economic history will forget the battle between the advocates of free silver and the defenders of the gold standard when it is explained through the Wizard of Oz.

            • By unmole 2022-03-286:281 reply

              Which editon are you reading? I thought the garbled IBM/Apple story was removed from later editions. Anyways, it was just a failed attempt adding some colour. I wouldn't ascribe too much importance to it.

              I had forgotten about the Wizard of Oz bit! I don't recall if it was meant as an aside or it was meant to support a larger point about public opinion of bimetallism.

              The bulk of the middle section of the book is mostly just meh. The final chapter though is something to behold! It's comically bad.

              The book remains fairly popular in certain circles. If not for anything else, read it so you can politely refute the person who brings it up at a party.

              • By kipchak 2022-03-2815:32

                I think I have the 2014 version. I don't think the IBM story itself is too important, but it does make me a bit more skeptical about other things that I have little firsthand knowledge of. As a comparison I remember reading a local newspaper article about something I happened to be involved in and the details were a bit off, making me wonder about the other articles I had no prior knowledge of.

                The Wizard of Oz bit is mostly color, but he relates it to the difficulty state-money theorists have had in coming up with similar narratives, and also that the myth of barter has persisted for lack of a similar anthropological myth for money.

          • By nafey 2022-03-286:211 reply

            No but we must recognise Graeber for bringing this idea into the mainstream

            • By unmole 2022-03-286:31

              > No but we must recognise Graeber for bringing this idea into the mainstream

              By misrepresenting what economists actually believe? How exactly did that improve the public discourse?

          • By mbrudd 2022-03-2813:131 reply

            You are of course welcome to your opinions about these things, but please be respectful enough to spell the late David Graeber's name correctly.

            • By unmole 2022-03-2813:47

              I did not misspell Graeber's name as some deliberate slight.

          • By pydry 2022-03-2812:241 reply

            >Or that this wasn't the mainstream view amongst economists?

            The myth is certainly taught by mainstream economists, here is one example:

            http://www2.york.psu.edu/~dxl31/econ14/lecture18.html

            >And Graber doesn't stop there. He pretends like somehow all of economics is hinged upon this Myth of Barter.

            I think he was specifically targeting neoclassical economists. The idea of Homo Economicus is essentially rooted in a number of myths that depict humans as spherical cows, Adam Smith's story of money emerging from barter being just one.

            >Adam Smith is not the supreme arbiter and law-giver of economics.

            Nope, he just has an unusual take because his analysis is more rooted in historical and anthropological study and, of course, he's kind of left wing. This angers people who try to gatekeep economic thought, limiting it to the likes of neoliberal (but still somehow mainstream) ideologues like Mankiw or Milton Friedman.

            I guarantee that when David Koch made an large donation to Florida State U economics department he didn't do it with the idea that they would teach more Graeber.

            • By unmole 2022-03-2813:001 reply

              > The myth is certainly taught by mainstream economists,

              Can you please state what you think the supposed myth actually is? I'm asking because people seem to have very different ideas about what it actually is as seen in this very thread.

              > I think he was specifically targeting neoclassical economists.

              Quoting Graber:

              > The answer seems to be that the Myth of Barter cannot go away, because it is central to the entire discourse of economics. Recall here what Smith was trying to do when he wrote The Wealth of Nations. Above all, the book was an attempt to establish the newfound discipline of economics as a science.

              > Nope, he just has an unusual take because his analysis is more rooted in historical and anthropological study and, of course, he's kind of left wing.

              I'm sorry, Adam Smith is left wing?

              • By pydry 2022-03-2813:482 reply

                The myth is that barter arose spontaneously throughout history and that currency arose as a more efficient means of mediating barter.

                >I'm sorry, Adam Smith is left wing?

                I was referring to Graeber. He was left wing and anticapitalist.

                Orthodox (neoclassical) economists like Mankiw tend to be very strongly pro-corporate due to way funding flows in the profession.

                • By unmole 2022-03-2814:551 reply

                  > The myth is that barter arose spontaneously throughout history and that currency arose as a more efficient means of mediating barter.

                  Interesting. Did you actually read Debt? Because Graeber himself says that economists don't claim a barter system as a historical fact:

                  > It's important to emphasize that this is not presented as something that actually happened, but as a purely imaginary exercise.

                  As I suspected, it seems you're arguing something else entirely

                  • By pydry 2022-03-2815:361 reply

                    He's talking about a specific example lifted from a particular textbook with that quote where they used insinuation to push the myth. He cites another example by Stiglitz just beneath it.

                    I lifted a different example from some other lecture notes in my link above where they just flat out said "this is what used to happen".

                    Really, there is no shortage of examples. It's the same myth in all cases, (although I wouldnt be surprised if some econ textbooks got patched since the book came out).

                    Im not sure exactly what youre trying to prove here. The distinction you're trying to highlight is hardly material.

                    Yes, I obviously did read the book. I also used to believe the myth because I first read it in an undergraduate econ textbook.

                    • By unmole 2022-03-2817:341 reply

                      The distinction between what is presented as a thought experiment and what is supposedly claimed as historical fact is most definitely material. And Graeber makes it clear what he's talking about:

                      > It's important to emphasize that this is not presented as something that actually happened, but as a purely imaginary exercise. "To see that society benefits from a medium of exchange" write Begg, Fischer and Dornbuch (Economics, 2oos), "imagine a barter economy. " "Imagine the difficulty you would have today," write Maunder, Myers, Wall, and Miller (Economics Explairzed, 1991) , "if you had to exchange your labor directly for the fruits of someone else's labor." "Imagine," write Parkin and King (Economics, 1995) , "you have roosters, but you want roses".

                      He quotes Stiglitz after this and remarks:

                      > Again this is just a make-believe land

                      Before claiming it's the same myth it's necessary to clarify what the myth actually is and why it supposedly is so important for capitalism.

                      > Yes, I obviously did read the book. I also used to believe the myth because I first read it in an undergraduate econ textbook.

                      In a deleted comment you claimed you read it in Mankiw. There it is most definitely presented as a thought experiment asking the reader to imagine the inconvenience of barter.

                      • By pydry 2022-03-2818:001 reply

                        >The distinction between what is presented as a thought experiment and what is supposedly claimed as historical fact is most definitely material.

                        A) it's been presented as both. The example you pointedly ignored that I posted above is one such example.

                        B) It's not really that material. The story serves the same purpose either way - both in the above example and in, say, Stiglitz.

                        >it's necessary to clarify what the myth actually is and why it supposedly is so important for capitalism.

                        It is which is why Graeber did explain why it's important.

                        I thought you read the book?

                        >In a deleted comment you claimed you read it in Mankiw.

                        After writing that comment I double checked the 8th edition of the text to see if i remembered correctly and ctrl-f and found zero about barter in the whole book so I guess we both misremembered.

                        I cant honestly remember which econ textbook I read it in since it was 16 years ago, but I do know that I read it and believed it and there are plenty of other examples that can be found via google, so whatever.

                        • By unmole 2022-03-2818:37

                          > The example you pointedly ignored that I posted above is one such example.

                          Nobody thinks this is the mainstream consensus view, not even Graeber.

                          > The story serves the same purpose either way

                          > It is which is why Graeber did explain why it's important.

                          The whole thread is about why Graber's just-so explanations are wrong. And your arguments are materially different from what is actually in the text.

                          > I guess we both misremembered.

                          From The Principles of Macroeconomics, 3rd Edition. Chapter 15 - The Monetary System

                          > The social custom of using money for transactions is extraordinarily useful in a large, complex society. Imagine, for a moment, that there was no item in the economy widely accepted in exchange for goods and services.

                • By mrtranscendence 2022-03-2815:441 reply

                  > Orthodox (neoclassical) economists like Mankiw tend to be very strongly pro-corporate due to way funding flows in the profession.

                  This borders on conspiracy theory. I was in an econ PhD program for years (though I never quite finished the dissertation), and trust me, economists working in the neoclassical tradition do not need corporate funding to be right of center. Most academic economists aren't getting corporate funding.

                  And there are plenty of left-wing economists whose work is nevertheless mainstream in the sense of living within the neoclassical paradigm.

                  > The myth is that barter arose spontaneously throughout history and that currency arose as a more efficient means of mediating barter.

                  Economists mostly don't care how money arose, and 99.999% of theories in economics would be unchanged if money arose after barter, after credit and debt, or as a result of aliens implanting the idea in ancient peoples' brains.

                  • By pydry 2022-03-2816:14

                    >This borders on conspiracy theory.

                    I find it overwhelmingly ironic that economists consider "people respond to incentives" as a fundamental building block of economic theory but when the topic is "do economists respond to incentives?" the answer is no, they are only interested in truth.

                    >Most academic economists aren't getting corporate funding.

                    Most programmers arent employed by FAANG but that doesnt stop armies of the ones that arent from idolizing the goog. Using money to build prestige that goes with money does a better job than straight up bribery.

                    Economists are the best paid social scientists by far thanks to the injection of money. Having a seat at the policy table has its advantages - advantages that anthropologists dont get.

                    >And there are plenty of left-wing economists whose work is nevertheless mainstream in the sense of living within the neoclassical paradigm.

                    I wonder if you are using, say, Paul "footsoldier of the DNC" Krugman as an example of "left wing" here because I cant think of any.

                    >Economists mostly don't care how money arose

                    The book addresses this point and explains why Adam Smith (and subsequent thinkers) did care. It's worth a read.

        • By sparkie 2022-03-2810:363 reply

          > debunking the myth of barter coming before credit

          Not debunked at all. How do people even agree what things are worth in order to offer credit before there exists any prices?

          The issue with Graeber and others is they are looking for a historical account of barter pre-dating a historical record of debt, but they will never find it, because the record-keeping begin for the purpose of recording debt. Any barter would pre-date any record keeping, and would likely be very shortly-lived before people converge onto a common money. They have completely misinterpreted Menger's 'On the Origins of Money' to begin with, and are debunking a straw-man.

          > "We have actual case studies of communities developing money prices from scratch: namely, prisoners who end up using cigarettes as the common medium of exchange. [...] The prisoners certainly weren't giving each other things from their Red Cross kits as gifts or as loans. No, they first were trading (in a state of direct exchange) and cigarettes quickly became the money in their community [...] The prices (quoted in cigarettes) of various items were posted on a board. If Graeber and his colleagues stumbled upon the ruins of this P.O.W. camp, they would presumably conclude that there was never a preexisting state of barter, because they only found boards listing prices quoted in terms of cigarettes." - https://mises.org/library/have-anthropologists-overturned-me...

          • By RobertoG 2022-03-2811:171 reply

            >>"The issue with Graeber and others is they are looking for a historical account of barter pre-dating a historical record of debt, but they will never find it, because the record-keeping begin for the purpose of recording debt."

            Is this is the case, it seems to me that the issue is not with Graeber and others but, with the guys that claim something about which there is not historical account.

            >>"We have actual case studies of communities developing money prices from scratch: "

            The point is not if barter is used sometimes or if some people, in some circumstances, would start using cigarettes as money, but if that's the main history of money, specifically in the context of early states, as has been claimed for many years without any kind of evidence.

            The burden of proof is not in the guys that examine the historic and archeology evidence, but in the ones that want to sell a narrative without evidence.

            • By sparkie 2022-03-2811:511 reply

              > The point is not if barter is used sometimes or if some people, in some circumstances, would start using cigarettes as money, but if that's the main history of money, specifically in the context of early states, as has been claimed for many years without any kind of evidence.

              Both sides of the argument are making claims without evidence, because evidence prior to record-keeping of debt doesn't exist, and never will. There are only theories about how money came into being, and some are more plausible than others.

              Graeber himself contradicts his own "debunking" of Menger's theory:

              > "All evidence that exists points to money emerging as a series of fixed equivalents between silver – the stuff used to measure fixed equivalents in long distance trade, and conveniently stockpiled in the temples themselves where it was used to make images of gods, etc – and grain, the stuff used to pay the most important rations from temple stockpiles to its workers. Hence a silver shekel was fixed as the amount of silver equivalent to the numbers of bushels of barley that could provide 2 meals a day for a temple worker over the course of a month. It was the Temples that actually had a need to extend a silver system from a unit used to compare the value of a limited number of rare items traded long distance, used almost exclusively by members of the political or administrative elite of the societies in question – to something that could be used to compare the values of everyday items, like planks of wood, jugs of beer, and so forth."

              Why silver?

              Why were they already stockpiling silver?

              How was it decided that silver would be used to measure fixed equivalents in long distance trade?

              How was it decided the ratio of silver to bushels of barley?

              What were these political and administrative elite doing when they proposed to offer a certain amount of silver for some long-distance traded rare items? (We have a word for this: 'barter')

              Why would the foreigners they are trading with even want all this silver?

              It takes some circular reasoning to get to where Graeber thinks he is, because he misinterpreted Menger to begin with. The above does not discredit Menger at all.

              • By RobertoG 2022-03-2812:291 reply

                It seems to me, that nobody is denying the existence of barter. For instance, barter exist in our current modern societies. The question is if there are any evidence that the history of money is fundamentally the history of barter.

                So, you have record-keeping that contradict the barter history and you have anthropology evidence that human semi-nomad tribes, even if they could barter sometimes, don't organize their society around barter, but, somehow, the more plausible evidence is barter. Don't know what to say to that.

                • By sparkie 2022-03-2816:031 reply

                  This is still a misunderstanding of Menger. Menger's argument is not that societies were organized around barter at all.

                  He argues that where barter exists, people will quickly converge onto one or more forms of money for organizing trade. Even if it is not the intention of individual tradesmen, some astute traders will realize that they can profit by matchmaking (a necessity when there is a double-coincidence of wants). These astute traders will pick commodities which have the best saleability (those which are mostly likely to be accepted in exchange for other goods, and which retain value) as their means of measuring trade value. The successful traders will in turn, define which commodities emerges as the common monies in that economy, because traders who chose other (less saleable) commodities as their unit of measure will not be as successful.

                  It is not surprising that there are no historical documents outlining this, for it would likely pre-date even the written word by centuries or millennia. If it were the intention of a matchmaker to profit from establishing trades through use of goods with high saleability, they would also not likely advertise their tactics willingly, as they would be in competition with others attempting to make similar trades.

                  There are many historical accounts of monies being displaced when new, superior forms of money enter into economies, which is an extension of Menger's thesis (Also known as Thiers' Law). If a society is using a form of money which for whatever reason becomes much less saleable, and a new commodity enters the market which is more saleable, the more saleable commodity will eventually displace the old money.

                  So if it were the case that silver was selected (by who?) as the first money, 'for reasons', it seems like they hit jackpot on first try, for silver would remain the most saleable commodity for millennia until it would be later displaced by gold. Call me sceptic, but I don't buy such coincidences.

                  • By randbox 2022-03-2817:04

                    > It is not surprising that there are no historical documents outlining this, for it would likely pre-date even the written word by centuries or millennia.

                    Huh? During the 17th and 18th century European colonization of North America there was no existing standard of payment which all settlers had access to. Before the circulation of paper money by colonial assemblies, tax and wages for public servants shifted to tobacco due to the liquidity of the export market.

                    > There are many historical accounts of monies being displaced when new, superior forms of money enter into economies, which is an extension of Menger's thesis (Also known as Thiers' Law). If a society is using a form of money which for whatever reason becomes much less saleable, and a new commodity enters the market which is more saleable, the more saleable commodity will eventually displace the old money

                    In the American colonies, commodity money based on farm products was replaced by paper credit money loaned by governors on security of property. Gold and silver were skipped over as official forms of money because they were not in large supply, and because activists such as Benjamin Franklin argued that if people invested time in digging for Spanish gold and buried treasure they would be poorer than if they spent time plowing fields.

                    > for silver would remain the most saleable commodity for millennia until it would be later displaced by gold

                    What's important is not simply salability but liquidity. In industrial countries the value of credit money is secured by the value of the assets of borrowers, they have to collect money back in same unit of account after investing or spending it to avoid default and foreclosure. In America the colonies tobacco-money or farm-product money was displaced by paper money with no metallic backing. Metal-backed money was imposed by Great Britain.

          • By SpodGaju 2022-03-2814:43

            > How do people even agree what things are worth

            Being inside a deeply rooted paradigm, it is hard to imagine that the idea of "the worth" of a thing might not have been a paradigm that pre-historic people comprehended.

            The thing that anthropologists like Graeber excel at is how they can take themselves out of their own conditioned thinking.

            Think off this, when you see a n expensive car drive by you will most likely reflexively say "That car is probably worth $300,000". You assign an objective worth to the car, when classical economics will tell you that the actual worth of a car is subjective.

            Personal ownership was not seen in the same way in the past as we see it today so objective worth might not have been in their mental framework.

          • By andrepd 2022-03-2813:412 reply

            >How do people even agree what things are worth in order to offer credit before there exists any prices?

            This is prominently discussed by Graeber in the book, so this comment leads me to believe you have even read it.

            • By sparkie 2022-03-2816:22

              I read it some time ago (~2011) and don't remember the details. At the time, I knew nothing of money and took most of the book at face value.

              However, when I later began studying Austrian economics, it became quite clear that Graeber's assumptions were based on circular reasoning, and that Graeber's writings on economics are through a left-leaning lens. That isn't to cast doubt on his work on Anthropology, which is fascinating to read, but I have doubts that he truly understood Menger's argument to begin with (or perhaps willingly chose to filter it to fit into his world-view.)

            • By I-M-S 2022-03-2815:24

              Indeed. In fact, OP's quote is considered and dismissed by Graeber in Debt using precisely the same example:

              "Occasionally, we can even find some kind of currency beginning to develop: for instance, in POW camps and many prisons, inmates have indeed been known to use cigarettes as a kind of currency, much to the delight and excitement of professional economists. But were too we are talking about people who grew up using money and now have to make do without it - exactly the situation "imagined" by the economics textbooks."

        • By SpodGaju 2022-03-2814:331 reply

          > Graeber is a poor economist

          1) Have you ever met a good economist?

          2) Is it possible you think he is a poor economist because he deeply understood it from the outside and you are still too "in it" to see? That is not a criticism, it is a question.

          • By I-M-S 2022-03-2815:151 reply

            I am deeply convinced economists fulfill the same function in our society that priests did in earlier ages - they flatter and influence the powerful, and avert people's attention from obvious injustices by packaging their hardship into some grander narrative.

            • By Biologist123 2022-03-2817:13

              I’m an economist, this is well observed and eloquently stated.

        • By xapata 2022-03-283:421 reply

          > ... everybody has a pretty good memory for when they get shafted.

          Not just humans. Chimpanzees demonstrate jealousy or a sense of fairness in experiment. I'm pretty sure I've seen dogs show it, too.

        • By hef19898 2022-03-287:121 reply

          I'm a poor doctor, but my book about heart surgery deserves props for debunking the myth... You do see the problem here, don't you?

          If people aren't qualified, as opposed to having credentials, to understand and comment on a subject, they should get a good co-author. Because the look at monetary policy through the ages is a very interesting one. If the authors do have an actual grip, and the ability to explain things to the layman unless we talk about dry scientific books, of the subject. If they don't it's just pseudo-science sold with confidence.

          • By md_ 2022-03-288:151 reply

            "Debt" isn't about monetary policy, though. It's about the anthropology of money, trade, and debt. It seems to me that those aren't subjects exclusively, or even necessarily optimally, addressed by economists, who, as a different commenter (correctly) wrote* above, aren't actually interested in the history of those ideas.

            * Interestingly, I think that was meant as exculpatory for economists, which is itself a bit revealing.

            • By unmole 2022-03-288:293 reply

              > Debt" isn't about monetary policy, though. It's about the anthropology of money, trade, and debt.

              And it would have been fine if Debt stuck to the anthropology. But perpetuating inaccuracies about money can be actively harmful.

              For example, I-series bonds are the safest instruments available to US residents to hedge against inflation. Now, in popular conception, if US treasury bonds are seen as a debt that will never be paid, people might instead put their savings into assets that are suboptimal. You already see gold shilling targeted at senior citizens which makes for a terrible investment.

              • By pydry 2022-03-2810:431 reply

                What inaccuracies did he perpetuate?

                That the national debt will never be "paid off" is hardly inaccurate. It's barely even controversial. It wouldn't be a good idea either.

                Hell, I remember the news articles from the 90s during a brief period of budget surplus that fretted about what pension funds and insurers would do if they couldnt buy t bills any more. The mask briefly slipped as the reality of the national-debt-is-basically-just-a-savings-account before we returned to our regularly scheduled implied bankruptcy doom-mongering and budget ceiling theatrics.

                • By hef19898 2022-03-2811:00

                  Overall it's not bad that national debt is there. Because usually a nation gets something for it. And national debt is paid back, all the time. Nations don't default on their debt that often, if they do it's really, really bad.

                  So overall, debt isn't paid back. The particular debt is paid back very much indeed. And whatever was paid for with that debt is ideally here to stay. National debt isn't anywhere close to private debt or a mortgage. Looking at it that way is just wrong.

                  By no account do I understand monetary theory or how national debt works in detail. I know enough to understand that it is a very complex topic, one that isn't easily understood. So I am cautious when it comes to easy explanations.

              • By md_ 2022-03-288:301 reply

                Fair enough, but I don't think seniors who buy American Liberty Coins after watching Tucker Carlson were informed by Graeber's economic sins--whatever they may be--in "Debt". ;)

                • By unmole 2022-03-289:05

                  Fine, replace senior with hipster and gold with <fashionable shitcoin>.

              • By RobertoG 2022-03-2811:27

                The fact that public debt in its totality will never will be zero, doesn't mean that the tenants of that debt will not receive what they were promised.

                In fact, you probably don't want the public debt to be payed.

                If debt is a liability, that means that is also an asset of somebody. In the case of public debt is an asset of the private sector. A country without public debt would mean those senior citizens wouldn't have safe assets.

                Also, a reduction of public debt means a lower deficit, that means less public expenses, that means, or a GDP fall or a higher private debt. Everything has to balance.

        • By Aunche 2022-03-2812:321 reply

          > Debt: The First 5000 years deserves props for debunking the myth of barter coming before credit

          Barter is just trading without the use of money. It isn't mutually exclusive with credit. What Graeber describes in his book is still barter. It's just a primitive credit system based promises of goods and services instead of promises of money.

          • By kqr 2022-03-2812:411 reply

            Barter involves agreeing on a specific exchange rate. Graeber describes (among other things, of course) systems in which that doesn't happen; systems in which debt isn't quantified, but instead a general sense of who has been more generous to whom over their lifetimes.

            • By Aunche 2022-03-2813:501 reply

              >Barter involves agreeing on a specific exchange rate

              This does not match with any definition that I've seen. Graeber debunks a parable used by Adam Smith and economists used to explain why money is more efficient than barter. The problem is that the central thesis of the parable still stands: trade is more efficient with through a medium of exchange.

              • By kqr 2022-03-2814:101 reply

                Wikipedia opens that

                > barter, for example, features immediate reciprocal exchange

                Reciprocality requires figuring out how many chickens a Ford Taurus is, i.e. the exchange rate.

                • By Aunche 2022-03-2815:361 reply

                  Graeber's examples of early debt are reciprocal. Otherwise, there would be no need to record them. Sure, it's not as transactional as money is, but it's a transaction nonetheless. I'll admit it's not immediate, but I don't think that's a particularly meaningful distinction. It's not particularly difficult to trust a farmer within your community when they say they'll offer you grain in the future during harvest season. They'd risk ostracization if they break their promise, which is close to a death sentence in that era.

                  • By kqr 2022-03-2817:59

                    I remember several examples of qualitative generosity and not quantitative reciprocity, but it was a while since I read the book, so I accept that I might remember incorrectly.

        • By zozbot234 2022-03-288:02

          We don't need nation states to maintain ledgers today. A "ledger" can now live entirely on the Internet and be totally trustless and decentralized.

      • By pydry 2022-03-2811:011 reply

        >calls the safest securities on the planet a debt that will never be paid

        This isn't the contradiction you think it is.

        The US has been in debt permanently since the civil war. When exactly did you think it was going to be paid off in its entirety? Why would it even make sense to do so while there is a permanent demand for high quality securities?

        Did you think Graeber was saying that treasuries weren't the safest security for you or me? He didn't. This is a gross misinterpretation of the book.

        • By unmole 2022-03-2812:192 reply

          Graber said I quote:

          > American imperial power is based on a debt that will never-can never-be repaid. Its national debt has become a promise, not just to its own people, but to the nations of the entire world, that everyone knows will not be kept.

          Graber then likens the large holdings of US treasuries by Western Europe, Japan and Korea to a tribute system which siphons wealth from these supposed client states to the American Empire. And then in the very same chapter he also says China accumulating US treasuries is the first stage of a very long process of reducing the United States to something like a traditional Chinese client state.

          No mention of the actual conventionally understood reason of why US treasuries are favored as reserves i.e. safety and liquidity.

          Tell me again how I am misrepresenting the book.

          • By modo_mario 2022-03-2916:14

            >Graber then likens the large holdings of US treasuries by Western Europe, Japan and Korea to a tribute system which siphons wealth from these supposed client states to the American Empire.

            Doesn't it kind of keep interest rates low and create needed liquidity in the US markets? I'm a layman but to me this reminds me of how i heard it explained that the status of the dollar as reserve currency and for oil transactions, etc subsidises subsidises the perpetual american trade deficit on the back of other nations. That person also referenced north african nations trying to protect their currency pegs even tho US fiscal policy was in part leading to issues for them leading up to the arab spring. I wonder how much truth there is to that.

          • By pydry 2022-03-2812:441 reply

            China isn't your neighbor topping up his pension or your local insurance company seeking a home for its premiums. Their risk profile and reasons for buying are utterly different. Even the liquidity of treasuries is, for them, different.

            Why do you think Russia dumped its treasuries in 2018 if they're such a safe investment for military opponents of US hegemony? How liquid would they be right now if they'd kept them? Which buyer of treasuries do you really think China shares most in common with? Is it State Farm or Calpers? Or is it Russia?

            What you're doing right now is the economic equivalent of trying to apply Newton's second law to relativistic speeds. Yes, that's absolutely misrepresenting the book.

            • By unmole 2022-03-2813:301 reply

              OK, let's pretend that central banks around the world don't buy US treasuries because they are safe and liquid. Why do they buy them then? Is it because they are vassals of the American empire paying tribute? Or is it because they are trying to turn America into a client state? They both can't be simultaneously true. Yet these are the explanations proffered by Graber in addition to claiming:

              > Its national debt has become a promise, not just to its own people, but to the nations of the entire world, that everyone knows will not be kept.

              • By pydry 2022-03-2814:012 reply

                China's holdings are large enough that will they be able to trigger an enormous inflationary spike by unloading US treasuries unlike pretty much every other holder.

                The larger their holdings and the more the US is reliant upon their industrial output the larger the inflationary spike they can trigger just by flipping a switch.

                Whether that spike is large enough to break confidence in the US dollar entirely and break its hegemony is another matter.

                The longer China manages to maintain a trade surplus with a US and siphon US industry away the better their odds are though and the scarier them unloading is.

                It's kind of like adage about how you owing the bank $1000 is 100% your problem and you owing the bank $10 mil is now the banks problem.

                • By unmole 2022-03-2815:471 reply

                  So, the thesis is that China will be able to trigger a inflationary spike in the US by plunging their own economy into a recession? As a nuclear option, it could possibly work. But I will point out that China holds ~3% of US debt. And if China starts dumping US treasuries, they will be scooped up by other central banks.

                  As interesting as this thesis may be, this is not even remotely close to what Graeber was alluding to:

                  > From a longer-term perspective, China's behavior isn't puzzling at all. In fact it's quite true to form. The unique thing about the Chinese empire is that it has, since the Han dynasty at least, adopted a peculiar sort of tribute system whereby, in exchange for recognition of the Chinese emperor as world-sovereign, they have been willing to shower their client states with gifts far greater than they receive in return. The echnique seems to have been developed almost as a kind of trick when dealing with the "northern barbarians" of the steppes, who always threatened Chinese frontiers : a way to overwhelm them with such luxuries that they would become complacent, effeminate, and unwarlike. It was systematized in the " tribute trade" practiced with client states like Japan, Taiwan, Korea, and various states of Southeast Asia, and for a brief period from 1405 to 1433, it even extended to a world scale, under the famous eunuch admiral Zheng He. He led a series of seven expeditions across the Indian Ocean, his great " treasure fleet"-in dramatic contrast to the Spanish treasure fleets of a century later-carrying not only thousands of armed marines, but endless quantities of silks, porcelain, and other Chinese luxuries to present to those local rulers willing to recognize the authority of the emperor.

                  • By pydry 2022-03-2816:511 reply

                    China has been engaged in a multi-decades long project of import substitution slowly moving up the value chain that is coming close to completion. There is almost nothing the US makes that China cant make too now.

                    At the same time they have been exporting cheap goods to the US which the US has become slowly accustomed to. Treasury purchase operations were an integral part of discounting these goods by artificially pushing down the value of the yuan. I suspect theyll try to keep this up more or less indefinitely until something snaps - they get slowly stronger and the US gets slowly weaker.

                    It has led to the US slowly deindustrializing and relying more and more upon artificially competitive Chinese imports.

                    The key feature of this strategy is the destruction of US industrial ecosystems through systematic, persistent undercutting. This is something the US tolerates because A) the frog is being boiled slowly B) US corporates have the same relationship with short term profits that an addict has with crack. In a way it's similar to the alliance the US made with the first batch of the post USSR oligarchs.

                    It takes 15-20 years give or take to build or destroy an industrial ecosystem while a currency can collapse in hours.

                    So yes, the strategy is very much like zheng he - service the US oligarchy's addiction to profit for a few decades before finally pulling out the rug and leaving the US to realize that it making an iPhone in the US will cost $3000 and you're actually all rather poor now.

                    • By unmole 2022-03-2817:11

                      This goes well into apologia territory. You ascribing rationale and arguments to Graeber which simply don't exist in the text.

                      I don't know what you think the tribute system was but it most definitely did not involve a rug pull.

                • By nradov 2022-03-2819:23

                  That makes no sense. China holds only about $1.1 trillion in US debt. They've actually been reducing their holdings in recent years. Even if they dumped it all on the open market tomorrow that wouldn't be sufficient to trigger an inflationary spike. Do the math.

      • By Lammy 2022-03-282:331 reply

        > a debt that will never be paid

        I can totally get down for this interpretation. When you think of Humanity (collectively-singular) as an entity destined to invent everything, we will obviously eventually invent the concepts of money, interest, debt, etc. The money can reproduce faster than Humanity can, so we're effectively in debt to ourself and have spent so many years trying to pay it off that we've forgotten we're truly One.

        • By unmole 2022-03-282:597 reply

          Debt only makes sense if there are at least two entities involved. If you think of humanity as a single entity, there can't be any debt: You can't be in debt to yourself!

          And that is not what Graber is talking about. The point was about US Treasuries. Everyone treats them as cash equivalents because nobody believes that the US Government will default. But Graber says and I quote:

          > American imperial power is based on a debt that will never-can never-be repaid. Its national debt has become a promise, not just to its own people, but to the nations of the entire world, that everyone knows will not be kept.

          And this is the kind of nonsense that is sprinkled all over the book.

          • By OtomotO 2022-03-286:431 reply

            Of course you can be in debt to yourself, over the dimension of time

            • By unmole 2022-03-286:452 reply

              How? What would your balance sheet look like?

              • By LMYahooTFY 2022-03-287:44

                By not meeting requirements.

                If you incur debts to your body, you'll pay for them in the future.

                If we squander intergenerational assets, our children will pay.

              • By OtomotO 2022-03-287:06

                March: -100, took 100 from my savings for the house, because I wanted to go to this concert.

                October: +100, finally paid back the 100 taken in March.

                Anothet option: you have multiple personalities.

                Btw. Semi joking

          • By Hendrikto 2022-03-283:152 reply

            Why is it nonsense? This debt is only ever re-financed, isn‘t it?

            • By chii 2022-03-283:571 reply

              > This debt is only ever re-financed, isn‘t it?

              so what? Have they missed an interest payment? Is their economy unproductive and cannot pay the interest?

              Having the debt means you are entitled to a portion of the economic output of the machine behind that debt. Why is it a must for the debt to be repayable in one go? Esp. if the debt was not all issued in one go?

              each time a particular treasury bond is due in full, the US treasury has been able to repay it. Whether they repay it by issuing new bonds, or increase their taxes and pay it off, makes no difference to the holder of that bond.

              • By roenxi 2022-03-287:371 reply

                In absolute terms, the US is probably competitive as the most indebted entity in history. In relative terms, they are well past the threshold where countries pay back their debts in full. Their past performance isn't really a guide to what happens next, unless they've changed what is being measured the US is a financial basket case [0]. They aren't going to pay back what was lent to them in real terms, the idea is preposterous.

                [0] https://www.longtermtrends.net/us-debt-to-gdp/

            • By kuang_eleven 2022-03-283:551 reply

              Treasury securities are routinely repaid, and by routinely I mean literally weekly.

              • By Hendrikto 2022-03-288:334 reply

                With new debt, which is what re-financing is.

                I guess this comes down to semantics. Paying off an old loan with a new one isn‘t ”paying off your debt“ in my eyes. You are still in debt afterwards.

                The total amount of debt will never come down again without hyperinflation. Whether that is good, bad, or doesn‘t matter is up to economists. But that‘s how it is.

                • By noduerme 2022-03-288:59

                  Musk, Bezos, and other billionaires have most of their cash in the form of loans taken out against their paper assets. This means they are actually producing more than enough new value to cover the interest on those loans, so essentially the loans they get are free money handed to them by someone who believes they'll pay it back, which those billionaires can then put into more productive or higher-yield enterprises and make even more money with it. When borrowing or refinancing is a good idea, you do it, because you'd be losing potential gains if you didn't. That's essentially the situation with America.

                • By dragonwriter 2022-03-2814:26

                  > I guess this comes down to semantics. Paying off an old loan with a new one isn‘t ”paying off your debt“ in my eyes. You are still in debt afterwards.

                  In the context of meeting obligations to creditors, which is what is being discussed, it absolutely is.

                  > The total amount of debt will never come down again without hyperinflation.

                  What has fundamentally changed since the last time it did which was (checks) Q2 2019?

                  > Whether that is good, bad, or doesn‘t matter is up to economists. But that‘s how it is.

                  There is very little reason to believe that. In fact, to the extent that the debt and inflation are related, the same acts which drive the debt up drive inflation, not the other way around.

                • By imtringued 2022-03-2810:25

                  You mean the real value of debt. By the way, it can't be paid off because negative interest rates, which represent the power of the debtor to refuse additional debt, are either ignored or people are trying to make them illegal. Germany has negative interest rates on its public debt and debt is going down.

                • By unmole 2022-03-289:151 reply

                  How does it matter to whoever is holding the treasuries? The claim is that the promise to pay the debt will not be kept.

                  • By Hendrikto 2022-03-2812:451 reply

                    Again, this comes down to how you define ”pay the debt“. To me, if you pay back your debt, you are dept-free. Re-financing (at the same interest rate) is debt-neutral, if you follow this logic.

                    • By unmole 2022-03-2813:261 reply

                      > To me, if you pay back your debt, you are dept-free.

                      Graber's point is primarily about foreign holders of US debt and how this is the American empire extracting tribute from its vassals. Whether America is debt-free or not really relevant.

                      • By Lammy 2022-03-295:56

                        Capital itself is global and claims no Nation, so why should you and I?

          • By WalterBright 2022-03-284:422 reply

            In a fiat money system, the government simply prints more money to pay off the debt.

            • By cf141q5325 2022-03-287:252 reply

              Its modern monetary theory now. The glorious idea that you can print as long as there is no store of value to flee into

              • By dragonwriter 2022-03-2814:331 reply

                MMT is the idea that the constraint on tax/spending in a fiat money system is monetary effects (inflation/deflation), not the need to tax or borrow money that you could just print to fuel spending.

                Ironically, the people that are most opposed to MMT on the basis of outright lies about its content are the people that are most likely to argue against large deficits on inflation grounds even when there is no problem borrowing enough money to fuel it.

                • By unmole 2022-03-2815:51

                  I have not come across any solid resources that actually lay out the theory of MMT. DO you have any recommendations?

              • By imtringued 2022-03-2810:291 reply

                I don't get it. What you are describing isn't even close to MMT because MMT is not a policy. Secondly, MMT predicts that inflation happens the moment your economy is running at full capacity and that deflation happens when you pay off debt to make the economy run below capacity. Those two things aren't disputed at all and no government has adopted policies based on MMT.

                • By unmole 2022-03-2815:51

                  I have not come across any solid resources that actually lay out the theory of MMT. DO you have any recommendations?

            • By dragonwriter 2022-03-2814:28

              By the same token, in a fiat money system, there's no reason for debt in the first place. Government debt denominated in its own fiat is a side effect of cosplaying a commodity money system.

          • By imtringued 2022-03-2810:231 reply

            It's true by definition. The savers will never give up their savings, the savings which are necessary to pay off the debt as public sector debt is private sector savings. It is quite simple.

            • By creamyhorror 2022-03-2810:381 reply

              The US government can issue more fiat to repay bonds if necessary. It can literally print itself out of debt. Yes, this could potentially cause some devaluation, but it's still a powerful backstop. The US would only default by choice, rather than being forced to. This is the privilege of having the USD be the world's reserve currency.

              At the level of the world's biggest economies, the concepts of debt (bonds), money, and interest rates are more abstract economic levers that central banks pull in order to keep economies chugging. They're not really the same things they are to individual people and corporations, e.g. in the way debt can cripple someone's finances.

              The central banks and governments are the game masters who set the rules and issue tokens, and we're the players interacting within the game and responding to the environments that they create.

              • By kqr 2022-03-2812:511 reply

                Wait, you mean they could go deeper into debt to pay off their debt? I'm not sure that helps.

                • By creamyhorror 2022-03-2818:481 reply

                  No, the US can simply create more USD and use it to pay off bond debt. Creation of USD doesn't incur more debt, but does expand the USD monetary base and inject more USD liquidity into global markets. The US doesn't actually need to borrow more to pay off old debt.

                  To restate: bonds and other loans are literally a policy tool to take in USD from or inject USD into circulation, in order to intentionally change the size of the money supply: "Open market operations (OMO) refers to a central bank buying or selling short-term Treasuries and other securities in the open market in order to influence the money supply." It's not like the central bank actually needs to borrow USD from the money supply; it's literally the issuer of USD and could create more at any time (or take it in and destroy it).

                  Why can the US do this? Because its bonds are denominated in its own currency, which world investors use. The demand for USD-denominated debt is a major benefit of the USD being the world's main reserve currency.

                  • By pseingatl 2022-03-2821:00

                    We'll see how that plays out after Ukraine.

          • By crawfordcomeaux 2022-03-283:042 reply

            So then there's a plan to pay it all back?

            • By xyzzyz 2022-03-283:341 reply

              Yes, it goes like this: collect taxes to spend on payments. Easy.

              • By MichaelBurge 2022-03-286:12

                The last time the federal government had a surplus was 2001. So it is historically not the plan to pay off debt with taxes: The debt is increasing, not decreasing.

                And if I Google "united states per capita debt", I see a box:

                    According to the last data point published, United States per capita debt in 2020 was 84,850 dollars per inhabitant. In 2019 it was 70,557 dollars, afterwards rising by 14,293 dollars, and if we again check 2010 we can see that then the debt per person was 46,284 dollars.
                
                So, one theoretically could reduce debt with tax payments. But it doesn't appear to be the current or historical plan.

          • By yesthatswrong1 2022-03-288:31

            Everyone knows the debt will never be fully repaid. Just the interests and that has to do with how there is a little parasite between the country and the money.

            The US already defaulted on their gold promises.

          • By noduerme 2022-03-288:50

            >> Its national debt has become a promise

            Right. So this supposed "revelation" that fiat money is debt created by elites out of thin air, has been the hocus-pocus story that every goldbug, sovereign citizen's movement and crypto-coin huckster has memorized to absolutely wow the gullible with conspiracy theories for the last 100 years. It's a guaranteed way to make a (fiat) buck if you sell a book along these lines.

            But the ridiculous thing is, in every situation other than US dollars, all people understand that buying debt is gambling on the risk of not being paid back. Whether you're buying some Argentine note that pays 30% or a municipal bond (or a war bond) or a ticket to see a movie in a theater that might close next week, you understand that the paper is worth more at maturity but it comes with risk. Everyone outside America who actually buys US debt fully understands this and makes the risk calculation, so how is it that average slackjawed Americans are just dumbstruck, generation after generation, year after year, by the notion that their evil government or central banks together are pulling off some sort of fast one on the rest of the world? No one buys this shit who doesn't weigh the risk. To whatever extent it's a house of cards, that's on the investors anyway, so there's no reason the average American should trouble themselves about it until/unless they need to learn what a national default looks like.

      • By hackeraccount 2022-03-2816:20

        Graeber book was super annoying - it's fine to come up with a version of reality but to the degree your version is different from other people's you need to engage with them.

      • By faustlast 2022-03-285:34

        All Perry Mehrling books are also great. The Fischer Black biography is fascinating for anyone who studied a bit of finance.

      • By billfruit 2022-03-2814:331 reply

        What about Keynes, "Treatise on Money"?.

        • By FabHK 2022-03-2815:001 reply

          Economics is one of the fields where I'd recommend secondary sources, not the original literature, and definitely so for Keynes.

          • By billfruit 2022-03-317:53

            Keynes I do think was a good pedagogue. Some of his writings illustrate exceptional clarity of expositon.

      • By bedobi 2022-03-284:28

        can't thank you enough for calling Graeber and his psuedointellectual bullshit adherents out for what they are (you do it far better than I have the patience for)

    • By schnitzelstoat 2022-03-288:431 reply

      I'd strongly recommend The Ascent of Money by Niall Ferguson:

      * https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2714607-the-ascent-of-mo...

      I found the historical context made it much easier to understand, and while I'm not a fan of Ferguson's politics - he is an excellent historian of finance.

    • By jonahbenton 2022-03-281:523 reply

      The Nature of Money, Geoffrey Ingham, predates Bitcoin and the financial crisis, but it is still the most incisive theoretical discussion of money I've read. If Debt: The First 5000 Years is undergrad, The Nature of Money is grad.

      • By vishnugupta 2022-03-284:311 reply

        +1. You beat me to posting it. As you rightly pointed out it’s not an easy read.

        I also recommend “The Invention of Coinage and the Monetization of Ancient Greece”. It succinctly covers second order effects of money. I got a good understanding of histories of phenomena that we take for granted such as salary. It’s fascinating to read about the transition.

        As a meta, I’ve been fortunate to witness a similar momentous transition computers and internet/communication. I wonder what other transition we are going through right now.

        • By herodoturtle 2022-03-2812:15

          > I also recommend “The Invention of Coinage and the Monetization of Ancient Greece”.

          Seconded ^_^

      • By cyber_kinetist 2022-03-287:11

        Nice recommendation, I've added to my reading list.

        I have read Graeber's Debt and it's a great book but always thought that it left out many so questions unanswered. His anthropological treatment of money is quite nice until feudalism, but when he starts explaining the start of the Enlightenment and the gold standard in Europe things seemed very rushed and inadequately explained. Also it only touches upon our current system (post-Bretton Woods neoliberalism) briefly in the last chapter, which was a letdown since I though Graeber would have many comments about our current configuration of society.

      • By throw0101a 2022-03-282:50

        Any comment on Ingham's Money: ideology, history, politics?

    • By ceh123 2022-03-281:542 reply

      Big ups for Bernstein, Against The Gods was a fantastic read and I can’t wait to read Power of Gold.

      Another book I’d like to throw into the mix here: Central Banking 101 [0]

      Fantastic overview of how the current central banking system works, written post-Covid so it has some context for the extensive QE that’s been happening over the last 2 years. Author worked on the Fed’s trading desk for over a decade in various capacities so he has a deep experiential knowledge of the plumbing in action.

      [0] https://www.amazon.com/Central-Banking-101-Joseph-Wang/dp/09...

    • By OtomotO 2022-03-286:472 reply

      The best one is still "das Kapital" ;)

      • By hef19898 2022-03-287:194 reply

        I know why you get downvoted. People tend to forget, so, that Marx actually was a pretty good, and respected, economist. And when he came up with "Das Kapital" it was one way of interpreting the nascent, unlimited capitalism of the industrial revolution. It's a pitty he was co-opted by people like Lenin or Trotzky. Less for what these two were or did, but more for the fact that they led to unlimited communism and Stalinism. Because of that, Western society tends to discard Marx. Looking around, seeing VC capital burning start-ups unhinging industries through capital alone, seeing a raising gig industry, I think Marx is as relevant as he ever was.

        • By OtomotO 2022-03-288:541 reply

          oO, was I downvoted? At the moment it seems to be a plus.

          But either way is fine, I am not self-censoring and don't really care for internet-points ^^

          You're totally right, few people have read Marx but a lot of people have an opinion about him.

        • By zozbot234 2022-03-287:575 reply

          > People tend to forget, so, that Marx actually was a pretty good, and respected, economist.

          He was working with flawed economic concepts, like the labor theory of value. He tried and failed to relate "value" derived from labor to actual market prices. (We now know that the problem he set up was even logically not solvable.) The "economics" you find in Das Kapital is essentially a zeroth-order approximation to what would be considered economic reasoning today, a bit like Aristotle's physics compared to Einstein's GR. It is of some very niche interest for things like input/output analysis, which is important to computable simulations of the economy. But for anything else, it's just not useful.

          • By nicoburns 2022-03-2811:042 reply

            > He was working with flawed economic concepts.

            That may well be true. But I'm not convinced that modern economists are doing any better. For example, consider how much economic work is still based on the utterly flawed concept that humans are rational in a classical sense.

            • By JumpCrisscross 2022-03-2814:04

              > consider how much economic work is still based on the utterly flawed concept that humans are rational in a classical sense

              It is not. In its descriptive mode, economics captures animal spirits well. In its prescriptive mode, yes, this is assumed. But rationality is a simplifying assumption, with work then done to explain why the reality observed in the descriptive mode diverges from the predicted behaviour of rational actors. Put another way, the rationality assumption is part spherical cow, part “what would we do were we rational?”

              Rejecting modern economics for the rationality assumption is rejecting modern physics for its use of frictionless environments.

            • By hef19898 2022-03-2811:10

              One thing about Marx is that he is as much history lesson as current economics lesson. Not that he, or other economists (the stuff from Mill I read is quite interesting, his "On Liberty" is great IMHO), are somehow fundamentally wrong today. They do have to be adapted for the last 100+ years so.

          • By hef19898 2022-03-288:191 reply

            We failed so far to accurately link work and market prices, capitalism is enabling that portion and is skewing things up. Marx did ask the question so, something most other economists never did. He also took a look at the social consequences for the working people, again something that is hardly done even today.

            If you ignore the social aspects of capitalism and economics completely, sure, Marx doesn't look like an Einstein. If you include those, that changes, doesn't it?

            EDIT (a long one): Recently I read "Faster, Cheaper, Better - A history of Manufacturing (pretty sure that's the right title, it's in a shelf at home right now) about the history of manufacturing from the stone age to LEAN and beyond, written by a former Toyota LEAN guy and current Professor at Karlsruhe University. Great book, can only recommend it. It is showing well researched examples for each period, including my personal favorite the Venetian Arsenal. And I totally agree with the author that we, as man kind, came out better every time we improved manufacturing. In the long run, in the short run we paid incredible high prices in health, lives and social issues. These short term consequences are just glanced over in this book, hand waved like "yadayadayada, child labor and harsh working conditions bad,... things improved, society better now".

            Marx lived during the industrial revolution, he saw those problems first hand. He saw that people with capital got rich, exploiting poor people and driving whole societies and professions into the ground. The Luddites are sold as backwards thinking folks today. Back then, when you just lost your own, small workshop that provided food for your family too a manufacture, when your own, and your kids prospects, changed from stable income to ruined health, 12 hour work days and being treated as cattle, they seem to be quite reasonable so.

            That Marx was the only prominent (there were certainly more, Marx being the most famous) economist looking at those issues says more about economists and politicians of the day than it says about Marx.

            That those social aspects of our technological improvements are glanced over also tells a lot about us. We are in the middle of a second industrial revolution, one that is aggravated by climate change. We will have a ton of those social issues down the road. And we are not thinking about those enough. That we basically have to fall back to Marx to get some potential answers speaks volumes about modern economics, social sciences and engineering.

            • By zozbot234 2022-03-2810:111 reply

              Marx also saw the potential of sustained economic growth way before anyone else did. He thought that socialism itself would only start making sense and become actionable after capitalism had exhausted its own growth potential; this is what would have made socialist revolution a foregone conclusion, a necessity of history - and an intermediate step towards full post-scarcity, which is what he meant by 'communism'. If he deserves to be called an economist (and I believe he does!) it's for these things. Not really for anything he wrote in Das Kapital.

              • By dragonelite 2022-03-2812:40

                I think most socialist that read theory know this, that is why they say socialism is more the road from capitalism to the never reachable utopia called communism. At least that is how i have understand their explanation, das kapital is still on my reading list but it such a big book its kind of intimidating to start and given the limited amount of free time i have xD

          • By bakuninsbart 2022-03-288:231 reply

            > He tried and failed to relate "value" derived from labor to actual market prices. (We now know that the problem he set up was even logically not solvable.)

            Could you expand on that?

        • By tcmart14 2022-03-287:521 reply

          Not to mention, Marx was fascinated with capitalism and credits much to capitalism. He was a student of Ricardo and Smith. He respected both men deeply. In fact, a lot of Marx's work is an extension of Smith's own ideas and the use of Smith's own language and phrases. It is just, Marx comes to a conclusion that Capitalism has it's limits as a liberating force and thus develops his own ideas of socialism to take the reigns from Capitalism and continue the march of progress. In the critiques Marx has of Capitalism, they are even shared with Smith or deeply influenced by Smith's own struggles with issues that can become present in Capitalism.

          We see a lot of Marx's basic ideals parroted by people without people realizing it. My favorite is Tucker Carlson listeners who spit on Marx. The idea of an elite with money/resource control controlling politics is literally straight out of Marx's writings and is a talking point Tucker Carlson likes to use.

          • By LudwigNagasena 2022-03-289:45

            > In fact, a lot of Marx's work is an extension of Smith's own ideas and the use of Smith's own language and phrases.

            Yes, Marx took the bad parts out of Smith and Ricardo and made a weird theory based on his reification of labor and value.

            > We see a lot of Marx's basic ideals parroted by people without people realizing it. My favorite is Tucker Carlson listeners who spit on Marx. The idea of an elite with money/resource control controlling politics is literally straight out of Marx's writings and is a talking point Tucker Carlson likes to use.

            Does Marx have a monopoly on this idea? It is a very trivial thing to believe, you don’t need Marx for that.

        • By LudwigNagasena 2022-03-289:421 reply

          > that Marx actually was a pretty good, and respected, economist

          He wasn’t.

          > And when he came up with "Das Kapital" it was one way of interpreting the nascent, unlimited capitalism of the industrial revolution.

          Das Kapital was just a bad book in terms of economic theory regardless of its anthropological value.

          > Because of that, Western society tends to discard Marx.

          Economists tended to discard Marx long before Lenin.

          > I think Marx is as relevant as he ever was

          Hm. I am not sure I understand the connection.

          • By amrocha 2022-03-2810:391 reply

            >He wasn’t.

            He was.

            >Das Kapital was just a bad book in terms of economic theory regardless of its anthropological value.

            Das Kapital is a great book in both economic and anthropologic terms.

            >Economists tended to discard Marx long before Lenin.

            No they didn't.

            >Hm. I am not sure I understand the connection.

            You should try reading Das Kapital.

            • By LudwigNagasena 2022-03-2819:061 reply

              Well, if you want to know opinion of his contemporaries you should read what they have written. Also, the third volume has a preface by Engels that tries to deflect criticism of contemporary economists.

              > You should try reading Das Kapital.

              Well, maybe you should try re-reading it, because as far as I understand it, it doesn’t say anything close to that; though I am sure there is an interpretation that claims so as there are dozens of various contradictory Marx’s interpretations.

              • By amrocha 2022-03-2819:231 reply

                Get some self awareness man, I was pointing out how combative without substance your comment was.

                "No, you're wrong. That's not how it was."

                • By LudwigNagasena 2022-03-297:45

                  What is asserted without evidence can be discarded without evidence.

      • By imtringued 2022-03-2810:321 reply

        You are better off with anything Proudhon or Silvio Gesell wrote. The problem with Silvio Gesell is that some of the Marxist criticism only applies to the brain dead ideas and people forget that there are four volumes of Das Kapital which means some of it is actually not complete garbage. The problem is that nobody has time to read the books.

        Ironically, the first volume is the most popular and yet the worst of them all.

    • By pseingatl 2022-03-285:14

      Don't forget: 𝙏𝙝𝙚 𝙂𝙧𝙖𝙢𝙢𝙖𝙧 𝙤𝙛 𝙈𝙤𝙣𝙚𝙮, by Felouz (Andalus Publishing)

    • By Proven 2022-03-283:17

    • By bedobi 2022-03-281:21

  • By NickBusey 2022-03-281:069 reply

    This looks to be a potentially interesting article. I started scrolling. I kept scrolling. It is long. 23,000 words long. wordstotime.com says it will take roughly 3 hours to read.

    Distrust any comment on the content that appears before the post is at least 3 hours old. Similarly how can we upvote it fast enough for the algorithm to not bury it before anyone has a chance to read it.

    • By lbotos 2022-03-283:191 reply

      As someone who's read Lyn for a while, there wasn't too much "new" here. Strangely for it's length it felt like a cliff notes of some of her other pieces on bitcoin and petrodollars.

      That said there is plenty here that people can engage with in good faith without reading it all word for word.

      • By boringg 2022-03-2813:432 reply

        I've read Lyn a couple times - I can't quite figure out their general position. Seems somewhat pro crypto and also all for deep dive in the financial markets / some kind of contrarian position. You think that's fairly accurate?

        I can't also tell if it's all somewhat promo for members area. As an economist, trying to understand the incentives.

        FWIW I like the research.

        • By lbotos 2022-03-2816:271 reply

          I've always felt like Lyn asks 5 whys, and then possibly, how can we use this to make money. I'm not a subscriber so I dunno how profitable she is, but I think she usually tries not to push an angle dogmatically in most of her public writing which can be refreshing these days.

          • By boringg 2022-03-290:23

            That kind of feels like how I read it too. Thanks

        • By quest88 2022-03-2815:101 reply

          From the couple of articles I read: Wants to be pro-crypto but also objective and rational it.

          • By boringg 2022-03-290:23

            This resonates as well. I appreciate the effort on objectiveness

    • By lettergram 2022-03-281:45

      Took me about 40 min lol

      I have followed this writer for some time, always pretty good and VERY detailed.

      If you don't know about bitcoin / historic currency, it's a great read. Covers the basis.

    • By rkagerer 2022-03-285:41

      Read it beginning to end first time I clicked the link. Yeah, it took a while. She summarizes several fascinating concepts in a fairly approachable manner.

      Knew a lot of this already, picked up some new examples I hadn't heard of before. Feel like it's a good article for sharing with older-generation family etc.

    • By 2143 2022-03-282:20

      What if somebody had read the article before it was submitted to HN?

    • By kraemahz 2022-03-284:101 reply

      I didn't read the article, but I scrolled through it until I found the place where he answers the question in the headline:

      What is money?

      Well, the answer to that question ties into the difference between currency and money. Currency is some other entity’s liability, and they can choose whether or not to honor that particular liability. Money is something that is intrinsically valuable in its own right to other entities, and that has no counterparty risk if you custody it yourself (although it may have pricing risk related to supply and demand). In other words, Russia’s gold is money; their FX reserves are currency. The same is true for other countries.

      • By bartvk 2022-03-286:512 reply

        > I found the place where he answers the question in the headline

        The author is a woman.

        • By saltmeister 2022-03-288:25

        • By layer8 2022-03-2813:271 reply

          Nowadays that might not be enough information to select the appropriate pronoun. ;)

          • By wbsss4412 2022-03-2820:38

            And yet, a pronoun was selected (incorrectly).

    • By fsckboy 2022-03-286:471 reply

      > Distrust any comment on the content that appears before the post is at least 3 hours old

      people who've studied economics formally already have a good grasp of what money is; as they read through the first few paragraphs of this they can see by its meandering where it may be headed. I don't plan to finish it.

      • By dalbasal 2022-03-287:561 reply

        This is fine. Only read what seems interesting. But... should you be voting based on what you think the article will probably say?

        • By fsckboy 2022-03-2821:14

          I didn't vote, but my comment was in response to something that says "don't trust comments". If you see something off in the first paragraph, it's fair game to comment on.

    • By gruez 2022-03-282:15

      >It is long. 23,000 words long. wordstotime.com says it will take roughly 3 hours to read.

      That's if you read out loud (23,000 @ 140wpm = 2:45 hours). If you silent read, you can get around 240wpm (1:36 hours).

    • By vishnugupta 2022-03-284:34

      FWIW, I read the article couple of weeks ago and engaged in a healthy debate with Lyn on Twitter.

    • By siavosh 2022-03-281:271 reply

      Might need to become an automated check before comments are allowed on HN articles.

      • By makeitdouble 2022-03-281:551 reply

        Imagine trying to comment on an academic research paper with a very clear abstract, just to be locked for 5 hours because of the 50 pages of the actual paper.

        • By simsla 2022-03-289:01

          I once saw a 5 page conference paper with a 120 page appendix.

          I admit I didn't read the appendix.

  • By Xcelerate 2022-03-2810:334 reply

    As a data scientist, perhaps this is a case of a hammer looking for a nail, but personal finance made a lot more sense when I started treating “money” as: 1) a collection of arbitrary rules invented by humans, 2) probability distributions over the ability to exchange certain assets at different points in time, 3) a giant optimization program.

    So, the terms “U.S. dollar”, “fixed rate mortgage”, “401k”, “capital gains”, etc. don’t really have any inherent meaning beyond the set of rules that govern their interactions. This rule system itself can change over time depending on politics and human emotions, so you have to try to model the dynamics of this meta-system as well, even though that’s pretty difficult.

    Once you’ve gathered all the different rules into some programmatic representation, then you decide what it is you want out of life and at what points in your life, then you start optimizing. For example, would you rather have a 10% chance of having $1,000 on some future date, or a 1% chance of having $10,000? The expected return is the same in both cases, so your optimization should really consist of targeting a specific shape for the entire distribution of outcomes rather than a single number (or specific assets).

    Not surprisingly, the average person (including me) does not have the right combination of 1) detailed knowledge of the global financial system and its rules, 2) how all these rules are likely to change, or 3) the technical background to implement the advanced mathematics required to optimize all of this in an accurate way that actually makes valid predictions.

    So most people instead just guess and base their financial plans on their hunches about how “money” works, and large organizations that have the time to do all of this modeling in a more rigorous way come out much further ahead.

    I still think simplifying the “rules” of finance would be one of the best things we could do to reduce wealth inequality, as inequality seems to largely be hidden in the highly volatile landscape of the cost function for the optimization problem I described.

    • By nebulous_two 2022-03-2811:53

      Thank you for giving me this perspective. I think it's hard to see it this way because of the emotional load money has due to its necessity for ones survival these days.

    • By merely-unlikely 2022-03-2816:20

      "1) a collection of arbitrary rules invented by humans, 2) probability distributions over the ability to exchange certain assets at different points in time, 3) a giant optimization program."

      That's a pretty good and succinct way of explaining the function of public markets. Their whole purpose is optimizing capital allocation by translating disparate assets across time into a single common metric.

    • By Apofis 2022-03-3011:26

      Money isn't complicated. Save money, invest it into index funds long term, don't spend more than you earn, make sure you purchase a property, and never rent. We got through COVID due to monetary policies the Federal Reserver, White House, and Congress enacted, all levers that would disappear in this "paradise" crypto nerds/enthusiasts sell where our government loses all control over money.

      Further, Venture Capitalists borrow money from Investment Banks who borrow money from the FED, how do we all envision this process working if our government can no longer issue money? A nebulous "DAO" with smart contracts? I'm not sure I'm comfortable with that.

    • By illwrks 2022-03-2813:241 reply

      I like this idea, but I wonder... if the rules were transparent would it inflate bubbles in areas that would be more likely to have the expected outcome, therefore making them less of a guarantee.

      • By merely-unlikely 2022-03-2816:14

        That's just expectations getting "priced in" as we say in the public markets and goes a long way to explaining tech multiples.

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